Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Why do folks hate Windham so much?

& when it comes to bulk .... 55gr is cheapest and most folks like to plink .... if they can ring a 10" gong at 400 yards ... they're happy.

True. But, my 1/7's shoot 55gr. just as well as the 1/9's I owned in the past. Unless its a small game varmint rig, I don't see the desire for a barrel to shoot lighter bullets than 55gr. My 16" 1/7 BCM barrel even shoots 45gr Vmax great.

Actually I remember someone doing a test on the common twist rates of 5.56 AR rifles a few months ago. Guns and Ammo, Rifle Shooter, or Shooting Times I think did it.

Their conclusion after sending thousands of rounds downrange was pretty simple. Unless you are shooting 77gr bullets or heavier, you don't need a 1-7 twist. But, if varmit hunting with 40-60gr bullets is your game, the 1-8 or 1-9 were the better choice. They did not see the same accuracy level with lighter bullets with the 1-7" barrels as the others. For what it's worth, RRA National Match rifles have 1-8" barrels. I don't hear of many complaints about their accuracy.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=226



Personally, I see no need to shoot any bullet heavier than 63 grs in a 5.56 unless you are trying to make it a long range gun. If I need to shoot over 300yds with my LAR-15, I'll get a bigger gun shooting a REAL cartridge, not a poodle shooter cartridge.


As far as Windam guns, they are fine if all you're looking for is a blasting gun. They have lousy triggers, average quality barrels, and priced about $200 too much for what they deliver. IMO, they are a $600-700gun, not a $1000 gun like commonly seen here in NY before AR guns were outlawed from sale.

you don't need a 7 or 8 twist 9 is plenty good. heavy bullets suck in the AR. if you need to shoot that far grab a 243

A 1in9 will not reliably stabilize 77gr Sierras, if it does, it is on the ragged edge of not doing so.

NOBODY needs a 1 in 7 to shoot anything that'll feed out of an AR mag, except tracers, so it tracers are your thing, you need a 1 in 7, 'cause that is why the Army uses it.

My test of one 1 in 8 18in Montana AR barrel shows the same accuracy (3/4moa) with 50hp's or 77's. YMMV

I may have been wrong on the 77gr bullet, but it was a 70 something grain bullet where the cut-off was. Maybe 72grs?

Depends more on the shape of the bullet than the weight. Either way, with 1 in 9's the general cut off is around 69grs.

I do need at least an 8 twist to reliably shoot the bullets I load out of my AR. They are quite accurate also. Is a .223 the ideal long range caliber? No, but it can be effective and accurate with the right bullet. The 1/9 twist does not usually work well with the long match bullets required to push the limits of the .223 in the AR platform. Its not always as easy as grabbing a .243.

Won too many matches with heavies in a 223 out to 1000 yards, for heavies to suck.

And too much game has been shot at longer range with my 223s and heavies for heavies to suck.

And then you can continue the conversation, if you go to a 243, there are always better rounds than the 243 even...

Just depends on how folks want to do what they want to do.

but rost,
if you were not restricted to a "service" round, would you still choose a 5.56 over a 6mm or larger diameter bullet in an AR-15 platform? I don't know alot about it, but the 6.5 grendal or some 6mm wildcat would seem supperior at longer ranges than the 5.56.

personally, I'd go to an AR-10 platform if I was shooting 1000yds in "service" type rifles. I know the 260 is damned hard to beat in an AR-10 style gun at LONG range.

You can always find something thats a little bit better than what you have. .22lr<.223<.308<.260<.300WM<.338 Lapua...etc.....
Being proficient with what you have is the key.

7",8",and 9". It's all good. Just find the right bullet and you're good to go.

The 7" and 8" might be a just little more versatile but with all the choices, finding a bullet that a 9" likes shouldn't be too hard.

Went AWAY from the M14 at 1000 to the AR15 in a service rifle if that says anything.

Yes you can always go a different route, but where does one stop?

Point was/is, the 223 is a very functional round.

I can understand getting away from the 308 in the M14. recoil propably gets to be an issue, and added cost too. Have you ever played around with a 6.5 or 6mm in the AR ?

6.5 Grendel and a 6.8 necked to 6mm.

Both work fine too IMHO. Just don't underestimate the 223 is all I'm generally saying, its bigger than it looks with teh right bullets. Drive a 90 to 2750 or so with a bc in the low 500s... they ain't shabby.

The M14 had no issues on recoil. 308 simply doesn't kick enough that you cna't get used to it. It was an accuracy issue with them, and then a sights issue. Perfect sights didn't exist. Accuracy you could get to, often at 3500 bucks or so give or take. Component cost was an issue when shooitng 20,000 rounds a year. In fact when shooting the M14 we could not afford 20,000 rounds a year.

But we are way off topic by now. Happens often though. Grins.

off topic, perhaps, but I'm still enjoying reading the responses and see where folks prejudices lie.

-g

On topic, I thought the concept of reviving a local buisiness in a small town and keeping families employed was a decent move. I grew up in town where the local sawmill was the buisiness, when it closed, so did many other things.

As far as quality, Windham is a seperate company to me from Bushmaster, and the woes of old. Looked at their rifle on the shelf, haven't shot or bought one yet. Nothing jumped out as watch-out, or wow-out. I've owned several BMs over the years, never seemed to want to hang onto them.

What you talking bout willis? Prejudice? Here?

Isn't this the optics forum?

Thank GOD I try to stay out of that one at least.