Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Why do folks hate Windham so much?

For crying out loud the DEA cannot find their butt with both hands sic the tremendously successful war on drugs

5000 is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of milspec guns FN and Colt have delivered.

RR got a portion of the contract, Colt and Sig Arms got the major portion.
http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2003/07-July/04-Jul-2003/10-awd.htm

Interesting conversation about it here.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=60027

Seems like I saw one of those at around $2000 but Colt is overpriced?

On the bright side of things ... I do see how reading these posts can be quite funny.

It is almost like the optics forum here.

What else are we supposed to do, there's nothing on tv...

True dat ..... I do see a 6920 in my future ... I just didn't find a Colt I liked for NRA Sporting rifle shooting ... RRA had two different rifles I liked, Windham had one ... but a lousy trigger. Just gotta figure out what to sell next to fund my 6920 purchase.

Not in a real hurry .... I like my SKS for such duties ... It has yet to hiccup in several years of ownership (finally cleaned it this last summer) & flinging the Wolf WPA its not too shabby in the accuracy dept. Tula patterns however.

How many people wear milspec boots and clothes when they hunt? How many use milspec packs and sleeping bags when they backpack? It must be the best, after all it's milspec. Just sayin'.

Always remember mil spec is the minimum. If your choice can't even match the minimum, what do you have?

Having said that, no Colt doesn't offer a 20" target gun, well they offer one but it hasn't been produced in a number of years. But let's say you wanted a RR NM gun. You don't have to worry about the receiver extension cause A2's are all the same. Going SS dismisses the 4140 barrel steel. You get a decent trigger, float tube hand guard and the rest of the furniture is GTG as well. 20" guns seem to always run, gas ports are standardized so nothing to worry about there as well as A2 RE's take the standard rifle buffer and nothing else. A very good gun for the money.

I don't wear military boots, clothes or packs because what I use is identifiably better for me. But many folks have no idea hat the differences are with mil-spec and not ARs so how can they know if one is better. Educating yourself about the product and your needs is the key.

And besides all that, a gas operated rifle is significantly more complicated than a pair of boots to build and maintain so your analogy is pretty lame.

No it's not. Both standards were written by pencil-necked geeks in some cubbyhole in the Pentagon or some Arsenal somewhere as to what would meet military standards.

So the military requirements for ARs aren't needed?

Not quite, you see The AR has been tested and retested and all the little things that make it run go into the TDP which is the blue prints to build the M4.

Cheaper non mil spec companies don't come close to meeting the TDP much less surpassing it.

genius level thinking!
The military who has broken more DI guns than all three of the recreation gun manufacturers will produce in 25 years knows nothing about what needs to be specified to make sure the next one don't break in the hands of a soldier.

RRA, Bushwacker, and Winded know where they can take cost out of the gun thus increasing profit....nothing less, nothing more.

Milspec is just one-way, it ain't necesarily the best way. "Milspec" means 1in7 twist, got tracers? I don't.
"Milspec" means I have turned down sections on the barrel to atatch a grenade launcher, got one of those?
"Milspec" 4150 chromo barrel steel, that's better than SS right?

I'm not sayin' a DPMS is as good as a Colt, I ain't stupid, there is a mushy middle in their somewhere though.

Wanna learn AR's? Build a parts gun and learn to unphuck problems as they arise.

Mil-spec seems like a good start but what is interesting is to hear conflict of when a part is better even if it is not mil-spec. As an example the Rainer Raptor ambi charging handle is not mil-spec due to the way it is milled (as explained to me) but the different method machining leads to a stronger part so does it now make it a bad thing it is not mil-spec?

Mil spec is the starting point. Building up from there is a great way to get what you want.

For example, if I was going to build "MY" perfect AR, lets start with a Walmart 6920. Add a Noveske 16" SS light weight barrel. A 13" Troy Alpha rail. A 2 stage trigger from Geisselle or an enhanced RR. A B5 SOPMOD stock. A Magpul MOE grip and enhanced trigger guard. KNS trigger pins and you have my basic blueprint for my perfect AR.

If you're gonna change something, change it for the better...

thats what I am talking about. all you mil spekies put that in your pipe and smoke it. along with your mil spec boots and back pack. The serious guys build their guns with the parts they want on them. so one would argue whats the point of mil spec guns to the public anyways if its more the recreational shooter that is anamored by mil spec

A lot of AN350's on here. For non mil-spec activities, non -mil-spec hardware may be appropriate.

I don't know where anyone said mil-spec is always needed, all of the time.

AN350??

the ramblings of mad men, if you want a plinker, hunting rifle get a RRA!