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I went looking at some reloading info, The 45ACP can be run up quite a bit more than I thought. I have always loaded either bullseye loads or standard mil-spec at 700-900fps. A 357 "seems" to have quite a bit more velocity. A full house 357 does indeed have some flash and noise especially in a short barreled pistol. I would guess a 45ACP +P etc would be rather snappy as well. Perhaps not the flash but recoil. I have settled on the 41 mag for hunting/backup, and the 38/357 with mostly 38's for range fun days
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Mackay Sagebrush, Glad you responded to my post. I was hoping you'd chime in. Tonight I was taking my horseback riding lessons and the owner was asking about which handgun would be good to handle their coyote problem. They take their horses on the overnight trail/camp rides as well have a small working farm. They've lost some Phillies and colts to the coyotes as well as three English mastiff which are used to protect their live stock and help bring in extra income for breeding/sell the puppies. They're not hand loader or hunters. They just barely squeak by making a living and have little disposable income. They want some to be able to pack/carry during their trail rides as well as to use on the their farm. I'm not sure I could recommend a 44mag revolver to them in good faith.  I believe it would be too expensive for them to shoot. Not to mention since they're not hunters/reloaders/shooter the recoil would be way too much for them. Do you believe the 357mag would serve them better in this role & application? Leo
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Campfire Tracker
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I am surprised that coyotes can bring down an English Mastiff. Perhaps one dog against a pack. To me a Shotgun would be the best answer. Unless they are familiar with pistols. Much easier to hit effectively, not as easy to carry however. If on a horse then a scabbard. Ammo is cheap and readily available in a standard gauge.
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smithrjd, These coyotes apparently run in packs. I was surprise that they could take down a 2yr horse!! My understanding was the mastiff won the fight against the pack of coyotes but succumb to the wounds. Unfortunately the two that died were the breeding females The male survive but got chewed up pretty good. He still has trouble with his back hips I agree a shotgun would be ideal, but unfortunately they can't afford both. Plus they also want some to be able to carry while in the saddle.
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Campfire Tracker
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To me in that situation a 12 gauge pump with OO or buckshot. No plug. Very easy to learn and deadly. Very hard to hit a moving target with a pistol especially on horseback. If the horse is not used to noise then it will all go south even quicker.
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Campfire Ranger
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I get a kick out of some of these discussions, like everything needs a hand cannon to get it solved.
I have a turn of the century colt S.A.A. in 38.50 bisley.
While i won't describe to any extent the exact inscription, there is on inside the grip stating that handgun killed a grizzley bear, two shots, at 50 yards in mexico circa 1914.
The 38.50 ballistically is the twin to the .40S&W
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Campfire Ranger
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Leo,
Coyotes are rather thin skinned and don't require Magnum type handguns to bring them down. They can be quite tenacious though. When it comes to trying to nail a coyote with a handgun, I would suggest something that does not have a lot of recoil. Besides, if your trying to grab reins or horn and shoot at the same time, things can get Western!
A Glock, M&P, or 1911 in 9mm would be a good choice in your friend's circumstances. Shooting a standard defensive type JHP that will rapidly expand will do the job nicely. The 9mm practice ammo is also something that they can afford more readily, and guns are plentiful. Used police trade in guns are common too.
They also don't have to be "into guns". Just a few practice sessions for familiarity can get them going.
Plus the plastic guns work well from the utility perspective of the dirt, sweat, hair and grime that comes with being around hay burners. They can take a lot of abuse and still go bang when needed.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Campfire Outfitter
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Mackay Sagebrush, Glad you responded to my post. I was hoping you'd chime in. Tonight I was taking my horseback riding lessons and the owner was asking about which handgun would be good to handle their coyote problem. They take their horses on the overnight trail/camp rides as well have a small working farm. They've lost some Phillies and colts to the coyotes as well as three English mastiff which are used to protect their live stock and help bring in extra income for breeding/sell the puppies. They're not hand loader or hunters. They just barely squeak by making a living and have little disposable income. They want some to be able to pack/carry during their trail rides as well as to use on the their farm. I'm not sure I could recommend a 44mag revolver to them in good faith. I believe it would be too expensive for them to shoot. Not to mention since they're not hunters/reloaders/shooter the recoil would be way too much for them. Do you believe the 357mag would serve them better in this role & application? Leo I would recommend a rifle.
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Campfire Ranger
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I just chuckled when I read what Ron posted while I was typing. He is right.
Yotes are fast moving little suckers and when you peel back the fur, they are a surprisingly small target. Precision placement of a bullet is what you need with a handgun. They are a tough target to hit when they turn on the afterburners too!
I swear if you don't get them on the first shot, they become half as tall, twice as long, and three times as fast!! Instant SpeedYote!!
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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I would be astonished that a person with that level of experience would hit a coyote with a handgun. Most are departing with only a vapor trail when jumped
Coyotes are typically rifle/shotgun worthy.
www.huntingadventures.netAre you living your life, or just paying bills until you die? When you hit the pearly gates I want to be there just to see the massive pile of dead 5hit at your feet. ( John Peyton)
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Mackay Sagebrush, Thanks for chiming back!
JJHack, glad to hear from you too!
I believe they wanted the handgun for when they're on the trail riding the horses.
When on the farm they'd mention a shotgun. I maybe able to help them on the shotgun front but not the handgun.
From what the owner told me these coyotes are pretty brazen. They purposely leave the radio on in the barn at night as to fool the coyotes into thinking people are still around.
These coyotes are also seem pretty smart in their raiding of their place. Mostly at night and apparently they get pretty close to the house as they wanted a shotgun which I consider short range weapon.
I never knew coyotes could be such a challenging adversary!
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Campfire Tracker
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My current pup is a BRT (Black Russian Terrier) not at all what you might think unless you know them. Goggle search them. Perhaps a more vocal aggressive dog for the barn. English Mastiff's are rather laid back. Mackay Sagebrush is right on the money as always. They are fast little suckers and deadly as well. Lots of pictures of small dogs and cats at the mail box, missing reward etc. Folks do not realize that they are in the food chain.
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" ... Very hard to hit a moving target with a pistol especially on horseback. If the horse is not used to noise then it will all go south even quicker." Brother, you ain't kidding!  L.W.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." (William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830s.)
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Allow me to ask another question.
How well of a trail/woods gun does a 4" barrel 44mag make?
Compared to 4" barrel 357mag?
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I have carried a Model 58, .41 magnum with a 4 inch barrel for over forty years. Not much different from a .44 mag but LIGHT YEARS ahead of a .357 when needed.
Terry
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Allow me to ask another question.
How well of a trail/woods gun does a 4" barrel 44mag make?
Compared to 4" barrel 357mag? I'd say more well.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Allow me to ask another question.
How well of a trail/woods gun does a 4" barrel 44mag make?
Compared to 4" barrel 357mag? The 44 mag is more versatile IMHO and certainly be loaded with rounds from mild to wild. The 44 has more horse power when needed. The 44 mag loaded down is an easy shooting 6 gun
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I would have zero issues with selling all I own and running my 5" M29-2.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Allow me to ask another question.
How well of a trail/woods gun does a 4" barrel 44mag make?
Compared to 4" barrel 357mag? Quite a bit. You could say it's only needed in Griz country, but there are a lot of mean bovines around that can take a lot of killing.
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My 4" S&W mountain gun is just about perfect.
Until some kind of laser weapon, or light saber is available
www.huntingadventures.netAre you living your life, or just paying bills until you die? When you hit the pearly gates I want to be there just to see the massive pile of dead 5hit at your feet. ( John Peyton)
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