Home Forums Birds & Dogs Upland Game Spreader Loads!!

I have 4 or 5 old pump shotguns all 30" full choke.. They were the kind grandfather bought.. In fact they are all from the 50's or older.. While I have several 870's with screw in chokes, I enjoy hunting with these old guns some of the time.. Usually, I hunt with them on the prairie where shots are longer and the full choke not such a handicap.. All would be more useful to me if they were modified or light modified.. But I hate to alter such nice old guns.. So this spring I spotted some Herters Spreader loads.. They were
3 1/4- 1 1/4-# 7's... Not 7 1/2's but 7's. Something I always wanted to try.. Later I spotted a bunch of shells were spreader loads from Polywad Co. Yesterday I took them out and shot some though a model 37 Ithaca 12 ga.. It will though a pattern at 25 yards that would demolish a quail or ringneck, but with these it look like it was a skeet tube.. May still open up some of these old guns but for now I have ammo that will work close up.. The Polywad ammo was 3- 1 1/8- #6.. They are available in 7 1/2, 8, & 9 also..

I have used Polywad Spreaders in tight choked 12s and 16s for California quail, chukars, and cottontails and NYS ruffed grouse with good results. Also have some Fiocchi spreader 8s I want to try on quail....if we have any left after this drought.

My uncle left me a 30" barreled Ithaca NID "Star Grade" 16 ga. ejector double with both barrels very full choked. It's a very nice and unusual gun and I didn't want to alter it, so the 16 ga Polywad Spreaders were just the ticket. I only use it for chukars since it is unhandy in brush/chaparral.

Also have two Savage/Valmet 2400 combination guns; the shotgun barrels are 12 ga. and choked "Improved Modified," which is pretty tight for upland hunting, so I've used Polywads in them when quail or cottontails might be present. The Imp Mod choke is great for turkeys and called coyotes with regular shells, tho.

Never checked Fiocchi, that might be a good source also.. sounds like a nice 16 bore...

I'm a big believer in spreader loads in older fixed choke guns. Makes them more versatile without having to cut steel.

I load my own using Ballistic Products X-Streme spreader appliances. Drop it into the wad before dropping the shot. Opens up tight chokes by a full degree of choke, proven on a pattern board. With a full/modified double gun, you get four different patterns, depending on what load you use and which trigger you pull.

Maybe a dumb question but why are all the old shotguns choked so tight? Where the wads not as good?

You might want to check out RST Shotshells, they make spreader and low recoil loads. Use them in a 12 SXS and also tried them in an Ithaca 37.

Not a dumb question; shooters been asking ourselves that for a long time. Consensus seems to be that the one-piece plastic wads we have are a tighter gas seal (and thus less distortion of the pattern by gas disruption) and also prevent "scrubbing" of the shot from contact with the barrel walls, which makes them less round and not fly as straight, opening the pattern.

My own private opinion is also that most shooters didn't pattern their shotguns at all and just subscribed to the usual American formula: MORE is always BETTER. More choke, heavier loads, longer barrels just HAD to equal MORE birds in the bag!

And an even more private opinion/suspicion is that some of our forbears were not above "ground swatting" gamebirds when that shot was available. As turkey hunters know, tighter chokes help when you shoot a sitting bird (Scandinavian and Germanic shotguns, used mainly for shooting birds out of trees until fairly recently, were almost always choked "Full and Fuller").

Just my opinion, but partly based on talking to lots of old guys in the 1940s and '50s.

Interesting discussion. When I was a kid people usually had one shotgun that served for everything from tight holding pheasants to waterfowl pass shooting so full choke was desirable. Some guys had adjustable chokes but most thought they were too clunky and "rich guys" had a compensator with choke tubes. With tight holding pheasants you just waited for it to get out a bit so it was still edible.

Modified is about as open as you need for prairie pheasants so I've not had a need for spreaders. For the old shotguns I use the cheapest shells in #6 or #4. Between the soft shot and larger size, patterns open up enough to make a difference.

From what I can tell having grown up in the period before plastic wads, the old timers shot full choke guns for several reasons.. First as some one mentioned patterns were not as tight with older loads.. Plus those guys wanted to be able to "reachout" when they were hunting.. Secondly, in those times, game was more plentiful and shots were in more open country.. In Maj. Charles Askins book on American game birds, he says for years he used full choke shotguns for shooting quail. But at the time of the book, I think in the early 40's, he had gone to a cylinder bore shotgun because quail had become more difficult to find in open country.. He was shooting more in heavy brush.. When I was a kid, I shot my grandfathers Fox 12 ga. for forest grouse.. With the old shells, it did a fine job knocking down grouse in the timber.. I always thought it was choked mod/full.. Then I went to shooting pumps for most of my hunting.. Also the screw in chokes came along.. So shotguns were more flexible.. Many years later when I tried my old Fox with modern shells. I found it very tight shooting with plastic wads.. I also found both barrels were bored full choke..!! With the old ammo it worked fine, but with plastic wads it was like a rifle..

I have a old Model 12 in 16 ga. that only has the 2 1/2 inch chamber. Rather than bore it out, I buy the shells from Polywad for it. Fun to shoot the old gun now.

Problem with some of the "spreader" loadings is part of the process to get there often entails more shot and higher speeds. Which results in higher recoil. Now some will come back and say you don't shoot all that much at game, so not that much of a big deal. Correct for the most part, but recoil does nothing for keeping one in the gun for any follow up shots.

With the light and lively old time shotguns, the high velocity loadings are not all that much fun. I wouldn't hesitate a second to have a good choke smith open them up if the pattern board proved them to be too tight.

battue, the spreader loads I picked up in 12 ga. were
3 1/4-1 1/4 -7's, the others were 1 1/8 of 6's at about 1120 fps. Neither was really heavy in recoil.. But I should have at least one of these older guns opened up for a light mod. choke.. but for now the spreader loads will do...

Shot the fixed Parker Repo yesterday, just to make sure it looked like it was going to hold. That shotgun is light and with Fiocchi 16g 1 ounce at around 1200 FPS it rocks you.

Today I'm ordering some RST 2.5in 7/8 ounce at 1150. The Grouse will not know the difference. Same with Pheasants at reasonable range.

The 16Ga barrels are marked Quail 1 and Quail 2. Which I think is a little less and and a little more than IC. Could be wrong on that. Both were crushing a 45 yard slow crosser.

Chokes are strange.

Chokes ARE strange. One of the many fascinating/frustrating things about shotguns....

The more I think about chokes the more I don't.

Things are always changing unless you always use the same everything. I don't so there is no reason to try and be specific. With the exception of the extremes, try and point well and hope for the best.

I used spreader loads on a trap range a whole lot of years ago in Germany. As I recall they had a vice, there was a hole in the center of the shot in flight. I think you could probably go with a classic look with that old gun. Take it to a gunsmith and have him cut the barrel back and install a Nice Poly Choke! I had one of those on a Mossberg Mod 500 in 12ga years ago and never took it off modified! if someone ask's you what it tell them it's a classic! Or, as we used to call them, a potato!

Yup, well said !
I think screw in chokes are highly over rated myself.
I was told that IC is no good for trap - right after I shot a 23 with a 5.5lb 16 gauge with 1oz field loads in IC!!
For most people , concentrate on putting the shot string on the head of the bird as you are swinging, and stuff will die.
I shoot full, mod, IC, and Cylinder chokes in both modern and vintage guns with everything from black powder to modern steel and hi-tech wads to fuzzy wads, all at the same waterfowl and upland.
The choke is the last thing I look at if the bird was missed!!
Cat

While I generally agree with cat, I do feel old tightly choked guns are more difficult to shoot well at normal ranges than say a similar gun choked IC.. I was shooting this 37 Ithaca the other day at probably 25 yards, with modern ammo a bird hit with the charge would be destroyed.. The spreader load looked excellent for the range.. I have noticed, I most do my best with a modified choke or lighter.. I really think with modern ammo, an IC would work for most of our upland shooting.. I know I have killed several turkey while small game hunting with an IC and trap loads of 7 1/2's.. both were in the neighborhood of 45 yards away.. Also over the years I shot quite a few sage grouse at 50 plus yards with a light mod. or and IC.. It was easy to pace off the distance when the birds drop in open country.. For me at least I am better of with less choke than too much..
As for shooting trap with an IC, I tried it many times, and at 16 it does fine even at longer ranges it broke birds very well, but I think you also loose some birds due to the open pattern..
cats' 23 with the 16 and IC might have been a 25 if the choke were mod..

Nope, I was behind and under both birds.
The choke was not the problem on those birds, both were just off the straight away, lazy right climbing handers ( wobble trap) , and consequently I got lazy as well!!
But Ii totally agree with you about the choke thing, I would much rather be under choked than over, but then I tend to shoot fast over a GSP, and when shooting out of a blind and waterfowl we bring them right in on the deck- really lets those old hammer doubles shine loaded with bismuth and Nice Shot!(grin)
Cat