Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters How to measure LOP needed for hunting rifles

How can I measure the length of pull I need in a hunting rifle stock?

Not a writer but I believe it's from the trigger to a point on the buttplate that's 1/2 way between the toe of the stock and top of the comb.

Make sure to wear your usual hunting clothes when mounting the rifle.

Also it depends on your shooting position in your shooting situation.

In any event the shooting mount should be smooth and easy.

The late Jeff Cooper liked a short stock (12.5")and he was 6'2".

There's more on this topic over on scoutrifle.org.

The "average" LOP for American factory rifles is 13-1/2", give or take a tiny bit. This supposedly fits the average American adult male, who's around 5'10" tall. It also work pretty well for women.

Many professional atockmakers use this is a very basic guideline, adding 1/8" for every inch of height the person is over or under 5'10". This means 12-1/2" for a 5'2" woman, or 14" for a 6'2" guy.

This usually works out pretty well, but shoulder width, arm length, clothing, etc. all have an effect. I'm 5'8" but like 13-1/2", probably because I have fairly broad shoulders. My wife is 5'7" and also likes 13-1/2" because she has long arms. But when hunting in real cold weather I prefer 1/4" less, the reason a couple of my big game rifles that might be used in cold have 13-1/4" LOP's.

One of the best things to do is try a bunch of rifles with different lengths, comb styles, etc. Shoulder slope and neck length also have an effect. I have square shoulders and a short neck and prefer a pretty straight stock, but my wife has sloping shoulders and a long neck and likes a Monte Carlo comb.

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Thanks!

MD is spot on. I am 5'11" and like a 14" to 14.5" LOP depending on the rifle. I have a gunsmith friend in SoCal who is built nearly identical to me. He likes a 12.5" LOP. I have a long neck and tend to crawl up the stock, hence one of my reasons for preferring a longer stock. Otherwise my eye ends up too close to the scope.

I can shoot rifles with LOP's ranging form 12" to 15". Heck, I even test fired one last weekend for a customer who has a 16" LOP. But, I prefer something more like 14.25" give or take.

The shortest stock that you can fire from prone bipod supported, behind a properly adjusted scope (typically as far forward as it can be mounted) with a 30/06 or similar case, and not get knocked into next week, will be best all around.

Most of these long stock afficionados, when you put 'em on a shooting timer and have them make snap shots and 25/50yd and rapid standing to kneeling or sitting, they'll look like Helen Keller.

What Mule Deer said.

I've done a lot of fiddling with different lengths of pull on different firearms and I get the best fit a little short of average. Don't know why, I should be average or just a little longer by the standard advice. Not that it makes a great deal of difference with rifles though the scope aligns automatically with my eye when the fit is right.

The common wisdom is to hold your shooting arm out to the side level with what you're standing on. Then bring your forearm up at a 90% angle toward the sky. Measure the distance from the inside of your elbow to the second knuckle on your trigger finger. That should be your ideal length of pull. Well, maybe. Many of us like it shorter or longer due to our personal preferences. The above will give you a place to start.

Back when I first started hunting, I had a hard time finding a rifle that fit me. 13.5" just wasn't enough. Just to give you an idea of my dimensions at that time, I drove up to Dayton once to visit a female friend during the summer.

Her mother came out to meet me, gave me a big hug and said, "I want you to do your trick. Rene said you've got a great trick."

"Huh?"

"She says you can clasp your hands and jump rope." She was dead serious.

I guess it was believable back then. Rifles were a problem for me and shotguns were even more of a problem. A lever 30-30 just disappeared on its way to my shoulder-- felt like I was shooting a cap gun. My solution was to either put the longest butt pad I could find, or use a slip on butt pad with a spacer.

Things change. I changed. I still have long arms but standard rifles fit me now a lot better. Part of it is that I have gained a layer of fat that I did not have at 19. Part of it is that my spine curvature has changed. Part of it is that I now wear an extra layer or two to keep out the cold. As a result, I've spent the last decade removing all the thick butt pads and going back to the original plates. All but one were still in the drawer I threw them into back during Reagan's first term.

The moral of this story is that without shouldering a rifle, there is probably no good way to tell. If you go by my height, I have actually grown an inch or better since I was 19. If you go by the Skidrow's measuring, I'm still a 14.5" shooter. Truth is that a standard 13.5" is getting a bit short for me.

That "Common Wisdom" has been totally debunked every time anyone actually looked at it. It is close to the average, but far from wisdom. Most stockfitters laugh at the concept.

That hinge in the middle of the arm called an elbow allows virtually everyone to use a stock, regardless the length of their arms. I am 6'4" and XL Tall shirts are short in the sleeve for me. The Knucklehead Common Wisdom says I need a 17" stock. Somewhere around 13 3/4 is what I really need.

The geometry between shoulder, eye, jowl, neck, and hand is everything.

Also stance. The M16A2's stock was lengthened from 13in to 13.5in at the behest of Camp Perry types who typically use that gay-assed bladed offhand stance. When we started going to war in addition to going to the range we found the new longer stock sucked balls for about 99% or users, regardless of height, arm length, inseam, shoe size, astrological sign, etc,etc..... This is a much more effective stance:

For sure. A T-shirt LOP will be differenter than a parka-wearing LOP.

I measured the thickness of the heaviest clothing I would ever wear hunting (compressed), and came up with something like 1/4". In other words, not enough to matter.

I have used these for seasonal adjustments on shotguns (where it matters more) with good results. As you see the barrel nut threads into the wood stock and whatever pad you choose fastens to the nut with a machine screw. Thick pad for early season, thinner for late season. Or use spacers. Much easier than fighting wood screws and no danger of loosening the screw hole. Wouldn't be my choice on a fancy gun but works well for field guns.


Gun Nut II - Brownell's

Apparently you copied it all but you didn't read it all. Never said it was the perfect way to do it. Just a place to start. On the other hand you could just start out at 10 feet and work your way down.

Interesting thread. I as mentioned in an earlier post put on a thick shirt and handle as many as I can and try to select the one that fits best. At 6'2" with long arms and neck and a thin face what feels best is the BDL style Remington stocks. The classic lines are pretty to look at but they don't fit as well and seem to whomp me more on the backend.

As TakeAKnee said it should be every bit as useful as your astrological sign, too... Fact is if you start around 13 1/2" you will have a better starting point... With more testable examples easily at hand.

Well, I guess its your way or the hi-way. Always good talking to ya.

Funny I seem to have missed the part where I even gave "my way" let alone insisted anyone use it...

All I did was point out the fact the oft repeated knuckle measure is useless. Especially when there are several simplistic systems that have some value.

For what its worth, I prefer my rifles to by about 3/8" shorter LOP than my shotguns.

One simple way to measure is to extend you trigger side arm parellel to the ground, and bend at the elbow so that your index finger is pointing straight up.
Grasp your rifle with that hand at the PG and return to that position so that your trigger finger rests comfortable on the trigger.

You should have slight clearance between the butt of the rifle and your biceps tendon at your elbow. No clearance or unable to make a 90� angle means LOP too long. A gap more than 1/2" is probably too short unless you plan heavy clothes.

This has worked very well for me. Shotguns I like them to just touch the bicep and rifles 3/8" shorter.

14" to 14 1/4" for me.

I guess I'm one of those long stock aficionados that looks like Helen Keller when shooting offhand.

Well, better to look like her than shoot like her......

I don't remember who coined the rule of thumb, nor can I quote it exactly, but it was something like this:

Better to err on the short side for a rifle, and on the long side for a shotgun.

I am best suited with a rifle stock at about 13 1/2", though 13 1/4" also suits me just fine. I am somewhat cramped at 13 5/8", and 13 3/4" is positively too long (pistol grip rifle stock).

For a shotgun, with pistol grip and single trigger, I like 14 1/4" to just a tad over 14 3/4", depending on the length of the grip. On a straight gripped shotgun, with single trigger, 15" feels just right, and 15 1/4" is almost as good. With double triggers, 15 1/4" to 15 1/2" to the front trigger is best for me (straight grip). Your mileage may vary, but that catches it for me.

As a point of reference, I stand just a tad over 5'8", have a short neck and fairly wide square shoulders, wear a 34" sleeve on the dress shirt.

I prefer the method that your nose should be 1& 1/2=2" back from your thumb when grasping the neck of the stock in a shooting position.You adjust your scope to accomodate you,not the opposite.Shotgun stocks are usually a little longer than rifle stocks

I have long arms, according to formulas, elbow to trigger..............etc I should use a 14" LOP but I have a thick shoulder and no neck. I like a 13.25 to 13.375" LOP especially with winter clothes.

This is a good discussion. Skidrow's suggestion must be right, because it works for me (LOL). Not so well for knuckle draggers, I guess.

Even 1/4" of difference can be quite noticeable. I modify many of my guns by adding one of the different sizes of Pachmyer Decelerator pads, since I find most factory stocks a bit short for me. I don't cut the wood, and I save the original pad so the gun can be returned to original, if so desired.

One thing for sure, a stock that is 1/4" too short is much more comfortable than a stock that is 1/4" too long.

Another trick that makes a short stock more comfortable to use, is to just grasp the forend further out with your offside hand than you normally do.
It sounds silly, but it works.

That is the method I use - tip of the nose to base joint of the thumb. I guess however that it might give rise to some odd results if you are one of those people who drops their head forward to the comb, looking out under your eyebrows, rather than keeping it proudly upright and bringing the comb to it.

I should also say that I'd rather have a stock a mite short than too long. A stock too long tends to snag or at least slow me down when I mount the rifle or gun to the shoulder. I am a bit over 6' tall, but have long arms and a long neck, so factory stocks are all a bit short really, and I have happily shot with rifles like SMLEs, which have quite short LOP. I've even shot with the rifle I shortened for the kids, which has a 12" LOP. As long as there's nothing going to hit my face or eyebrow, and in the cased of scoped rifles as long as the scope can be put in a position where I'll have enough clearance and a full FOV, I'm not particularly bothered.

I think it is much more critical on a shotgun than a rifle though, and there I'm a bit more inclined to make adjustments.

Things do change over the years. I used to be a bit under 6', but now at 64 am just under 5'11". Weighed 150 out of high school, just about 200 now(it is coming down-ok?). The length of the forearm is well over 15 1/2", the arm pit to finger tip is over 32. Added to a long neck I should probably be using longer stocks, but get along pretty well at 13.75-14" especially with cold weather clothes on.