Home Forums Fishing Saltwater More talk about various engine/drive combos...

Started a new thread, rather than water down the one about choosing a new boat for the wife...

I'm trying to decide what combo to use on a 36ft+ aluminum drop bow that will be used for sight-seeing and transporting people and equipment (4wheelers & kayaks) to shore.

The boat will have a large cabin, so it will be relatively heavy.

Plan on having deck space to haul at least 4 atv's, some of which may be the larger 'Rhino' type.

My typical boating day usually involves running up onto the beach at least once. But, some of the distances I run stretch out to 100 miles one way.

Beach conditions are normally rugged. Big rocks are the norm, not sand or light gravel. Most mud/sandy beaches are to shallow to get close enough to offload without something getting wet. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm a red-blooded American, so I love diesels, but have reservations about the high rpm versions. We all know a big diesel turning 1500rpms will last 20,000 hours, but I wouldn't expect that longevity turning 2500-3500rpms.

Gotta have speed. The tourist ride a slow boat into town already, and have time restraints. Need some semblance of economy here, it's a business, not a toy.

Well... it's both, but the boat has to make a profit for me to play. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have some thoughts, but think it best to see what you guys come up with before I share them. Otherwise I may prevent some good responses. Seems we do have some really good experience here at the Campfire. I've been impressed by the level of that experience given this is a hunting forum.

To power a 36' foot boat, i think that you would have to go for the triple 250 setup.

That being said, i'd go diesel for a boat that big.

4 E-Tec 250's bro...........<grin>

I remain impressed with a Svensen 32' Crew Boat with twin Cummins fueling jet pumps. Fast,efficient,reliable,laregely maintenance free and long lived.

It's the way to go,IMHO....................

I'm with Stick...reports comming back on the new cummins motors are looking positive on this coast. We usually run 70 before we put a line in for tuna.

Jets are nice, I just worry about losing speed.

These are the only two jet boats I've driven...



...and both are slow. Lot's of noise, lots of wake, little forward motion. They are easier to walk into a dock (or ram, either way <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) than straight inboards.

I know there are fast jet boats, like the new State ferries, and the local whale watching boats.

The boat I mentioned,will do 40knots easily.

That's pretty fast in my book,given the vessel's relative size.

My sole reservation,is in plugging the pumps' intake with kelp or similar matter,via shallow water shore entry.

Never could like the notion of having multi-hundreds of gallons of gasoline strapped to me................................

The boat Stick speaks of is one-bad-mother....a guy could do some damage on the beach, during rut, with it....

BW,
I once landed the Dipper on a sandbar in the Colville...jammed one jet bucket or gate, I'm too drunk to remember which, and had to tow it home with the Agviq....all the way to Oliktok....like 12 hours.....Barron was on the tow-line and I had to run a gauntlet of icebergs in the dark on radar...

It was like a video game, and the kind of fun you can only have when it ain't your cash on the line......

Your not the only one to do that with the Dipper. Maybe the first though! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Here's the Agviq getting towed at the end of the season because the jets clog up with ice...





Then a bit more pushing into position with the 'wheeled' boats...



and hauled out...

I would suggest you not go CAT... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I hear ya, loud and clear. That notwithstanding (is that a word?) the Cat 343 in the big boat has over 10,000 hours of troublefree running.

Kinda goes back to my theory on fast turning diesels compared to slow 'old school' diesels.

Art , I think your hatred for cats stems more from a [bleep] dealership rather than the motor itself. To be honest they steared you in the wrong direction with the purchase of your motors. A pair of 31 series are not for a 40 ft boat. A pair of 3208 would have been a better choice at that venture. From the coversations we've had it sounds as though your AK dealership is an A$$hole. Cats and Cummins is what everyone buys here and some are going to theses disposable Yanmars.

The jet/diesel package is a good combo, and will perform right up there with a prop boat in clean-planing applications with light hull loadings (as in lb/sq.ft of running surface). Most catamarans have a much higher hull loading than a comperable monohull. In this case the jets give up about 20% in top speed and more in fuel economy.

I found a very promising drive made in Europe called the Saro Drive. It is a modified, trimable surface-piercing drive. Maxweld has a couple boats under construction using this drive--the first is a 40' landing craft! It will be interesting to see how they do.

Thanks for the info Mav. I'm not ready to give up 20% of performance or mileage. I realize many jet driven boats are fast, but apparently most would be faster if propped.

I've seen a couple surface piercing drive boats around here. I'll keep a look out for more info on Maxwelds new boat.

BW,

Don't give up on jets entirely! We were looking at Almar before we found Maxweld, and their I/O installations performed the same as their jets. Their monohulls have about twice the planing area as a Maxcat of similar size and weight---that is the difference.

Rumor has it Suzuki will be coming out with a 300hp 4 stroke next year, just right for a 35' drop bow. A pair of 225's do ok till you put a good load on then you have to wind em up. I'll post drawings of the 35' me and the rich uncle are having built. Plate is at the cutters as I type. There is a year long backlog at all the decent boatbuilders in the PNW.

We're going with OB's because it would take a 40'+ boat to have the same deck and cabin arrangement and keep the engines aft of the cabin. I've replaced plenty of diesels and wouldn't want to cut the cabin roof to remove an engine. Not to mention the racket of having two screaming diesels under our bunk. Considering $5,000 a foot= $25k plus $50k engines another $30k jets minus $25k for twin OB's, it's another $80,000 to build a 40' diesel vs a 35' OB powered boat. We figured thats a lot of gas and spare OB money.

I had a 34' 16 passenger boat with twin 3116 Cats and Hamilton jets. After smoking a few of those at 350hp put in the 3126 at 400hp. It had no trouble hitting 45+. Made for an easy cruise at 30. Sold it before those blew up too. Awsome performance when we weren't changing engines. +1 Cummins and Hamilton. Stay away from Ultrajet!

There was a 38 Munson with twin Merc/ Navstar diesels w/ outdrives for sale in Juneau. It may still be available. It's on Munson's website as Alaskan Hunter.

TK

Here's a plan view of our 35' drop bow. Being built by Ottercraft in Kingston WA.

tk,

That's a very nice looking boat! Very close to what I'm looking to have built. Is it some sort of catamaran design? The outboards looked like they're seperated more than usual for a single vee hull.

With the walk around on the starboard side, I'm guessing you don't have a door forward? I was strongly considering a full-width cabin, which of course dictates forward and rear doors.

I've been trying to keep up with the release of the Suzuki 300hp engines. Yamaha already makes a 300hp 2 stroke that had problems when first released, but now seem to be running strong. Of course Merc has the Verados. I'm hoping the E-tecs get more horsepower by the time I pull the trigger.

You nailed the problems with high speed diesels. They're expensive, noisy, and take up room.

What sort of throttle controls you going with? I'm leaning towards the MMC electronic controls as that's what I'm familiar with using.

BW,

With the price of fuel, just say no........

It's a 16 degree V monohull. I had the outboards mounted wider than the engine manufacturers reccomendation so it would actually handle like a twin engine boat. Whomever's idea it was to mount twins on 16" from the C/L, or whatever it is, obviously never tried to dock a boat or work between the engines. It also makes it shalower draft. Were going with the old fashioned push-pull cable setup. Mathers are a little touchy in my opinion. The flat at the stern is so she sits level if she gets beached, in theory. Here's a couple more views. I can't get the profile to load larger? TK

So how did you hear about Ottercraft? I found their website, but it's under construction.

I like the engines spread out like that. It makes perfect sense.

Fuel costs money? I've heard that, but I just swipe the plastic and get gas. Maybe that's why the wife assembly gives me dirty looks when the white envelope with the green printing comes in the mail. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Did ya know, the 24 hour pump still works near the harbor master office. The red plastic thing I stick in there doesn't even look like a credit card, so the gas must be free!

The Uncle had a friend who turned him onto them, he's having a 28' landingcraft built. They are a couple of ex-Munson people. Very professional and do absolutely beautiful work. I dropped buy the shop this spring and checked out four boats they were working on and talked to someone who just had one built by them. I was thoroughly impressed as was the gentleman I spoke with. Out of six builders who actually bid, many were backlogged over a year, they were second lowest. The low bidder was a backyard builder and his boats showed it. Bids were from $140,000 to $375,000

Check out Specialty Marine. www.specmar.com They sell "kit" boats to builders. Stephen will customize any hull for you. We almost went with one of them except the 35' was a chopped down 42' so it was overbuilt and heavy. One of these was just delivered to Juneau and I'm going to check it out soon. Ottercraft designed this one from scratch so we were able tailor the design to our needs. The 42' "Gust" pictured was just built in Sitka this winter.

TK

I've checked out the Specmar website many times. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Their plans are very popular around here too.

In fact, I've checked out 'Gust' in person down at the dock. Lot of boat for the engines.

Thanks for the info!

You have a couple people over there who could build you what you'd like. Allen Marine was third, fully capable of building a nice boat, we just didn't want the Specmar hull. TK

I'm in the same boat (pun intended) when it comes to Specmar hulls. I want something a bit different. Allen Marine has some interesting cats running tourist around town, but they are diesel inboard jets.

There was a another Maxweld Cat at the fuel dock today at the same time I was there. So after I fueled up, I talked to the guy. It was diesel, but not sure if it was inboard or outdrives. I ask him if it was a displacement cat, and he told me it was a planing hull. Said the water actually touches the hull inbetween the sponsons just before the transom, rather than exiting at the rear with an air gap. That apparently adds life while cruising.

I ask him if it was a 34 foot boat, he said Maxweld calls it a 31ft, but they don't count the engine platform behind the transom, and stop at the bow where the sponsons reach up to the main hull. Overall length was 36ft.

They are NICE boats. Also a good company to work with, according to the owner.

They started our hull last week!!!!

Do me a favor, and keep the pictures coming!

The sides go on!!!

Nice!! Keep the pictures comin'........grin.......

Here's a pic. of the keel where the "delta" pad starts. If you look at the stern view it's the flat between the engines. Hopefully it will allow the boat to sit upright when beached.

Stern view of the delta pad.

Thanks for the updates!

That jig is certainly beefy enough! I assume they plan on making more than one boat. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Any updates?

I just arrived back in town from visiting the boat builder ironing out some details. The hull is virtually done and the cabin plate is at the cutters. That's a 6' wide bow door. It's a huge boat. The square hole in the deck on the left side is a fish hold that is above the waterline so it will self drain.

TK,

Thanks for the updated pictures!

That is really looking nice, I love the huge bow door.

I think Allen Marine is busy right now, they ran another tour boat over a rock last week. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It was a smaller 36ft(ish) boat. Seems the Coast Guard is starting to take a hard look at their safety program.

I've got my 22ft skiff in their shop now. The Honda 130 is getting water in the oil. I'm still waiting for them to check it out and let me know the damage.

They asked if we wanted an 8' wide bow door! I think 6' is plenty and less likley to cave in.

Sorry to hear of your Honda woes, tell Chris and the gang to get on it! You've got shrimp to catch!

Here's a pic of the built in transom stairs.

The cabin goes up!

Nice!

Might ask them to save the aluminum they cut out for the windshields, and make some windshield covers for shipping purposes.

The boat is looking great.

Here's a shot of the front of the cabin from deck level with the windows cut in and railing on. The little bump out below the windows is for the ducting for the defrosters. It will have a small Toyo furnace for heat.

Side boarding door.

I had just been thinking about your boat, and was getting ready to post a rewuest for more pictures.

It sure is looking nice!

Do you know what kind of boat their building in the background?

tkinak,

Time for more pictures please!!!

Work on the boat has slowed on our request so I havent recieved much in the way of new pictures to post. The boat was not going to make moose season so we told them to back burner it and we'll have an early spring delivery. Here's a couple new pictures. One is of the anchor winch, shows the quality of their welding. The other one is of the table area showing the bench seats.

Nice!

Still nice pictures!

Here are some updated pictures I took last week. Delivery still on for early spring.

First picture shows the transom and the white propane storange box for the instant hot water for the galley and shower.

Second pic. shows the self draining fish hold in the deck as well as the green fill cap for the diesel tank for the Wabasto forced air furnace.

The third shows the deck, spot lights, ladder to cabin top and the water heater exhaust.

Sweet!!

Here's a 28' they had in the shop. The wavy plate on the side and transome is temporary to keep things straight while welding.

Here's the builders first little blunder. They forgot thr upper bunk. Easy fix though.

The sink is to the left under the cardboard and below the electrical panel door is the lower bunk. The second bunk will be above the panel. These are on the aft cabin wall.

Long overdue update.

Galley



One of the 250 Yamaha 4 strokes


Non skid paint



Launch date is set for late March

Very nice!

Thanks for the update!

More...

Davit/ pot hauler



Better picture of the motors.

SPLASH!!!

Light she hit 40 mph at 5900 rpm, cruised 30 mph at 4400. Seems ok for 35' of boat and that large house.

Wow! That's a great looking boat!

What are you using to power the hauler? Does the davit reach up enough to off load a dingy?

Those are great performance numbers for that boat. Might drop a bit as you load her up with the essentials, but the motors will improve as they are broken in.

I see in the pictures somebody (I assume the pics are from down south, given the lack of snow) is playing 'spin the boat with the engines' game. With the outboards spaced out nicely like that, it may 'walk' as nice as most inboard applications.

That anchor may contact the hull, is it reinforced there, perhaps with aluminum or rubber?

Wanna sell her?