Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters shotshell primers

I'm usually quite "religious" about shotshell recipes and normally load only the recipe stated in loading manuals.

Having said that I'm thinking there are quite a few shotshell primers that are substitutable in individual recipes.

Bear in mind that I'm only talking about substituting primers and no other items such as hulls, wads or shot weights
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My question is.....is there a list of primers that can be substituted in any given recipe?

I've always just used Win209 primers Vapo. I've substituted the Cheddite with no problems.

I don't think shotgun shell reloading is as touchy as metallic reloading. Don't worry too much and don't over-think it.

I always just picked the wad that was recommended, powder charge, hull, primer and churned them out as fast as I could pull the handle on a MEC 9000 grabber into a 5 gallon bucket, then went and shot them.

vapodog-
As far as I'm aware, such a list prepared from reliable testing is non-existent, although it would certainly be handy if it did exist. Because there are thousands of different recipes for shotshell reloading, developing a list for all such recipes would be a tall order.

(If I'm incorrect and such a list has been published, I'll be pleased to purchase a copy quickly.)

Given your "religious" approach of sticking with tested loading information, you are almost certainly aware of the following information, but repetition for lurkers won't hurt. From Lyman's Shotshell Reloading Handbook, 5th edition (2007), p.45:
The facts speak for themselves: each shotshell primer performs differently than any other primer. One or two exceptions to this is the CCI 209 (not to be confused with the CCI 209M primer) and the CCI 109 primer. The CCI 209 and CCI 109 primers deliver identical ballistics. The CCI 109 primer is no longer being produced however. The other exception is the also discontinued Remington 97* that delivers ballistics equal to the newer Remington 209P primer. NO OTHER PRIMER SHOULD EVER BE SUBSTITUTED FOR ANY OTHER PRIMER. (Emphasis in the original.)

Another exception is found in some recent Hodgdon literature, stating that the NobelSport 209 primer may safely be substituted for the Winchester 209 primer. (The key word is safely; it does not state that the ballistics will be equal).

Shotshell primers show different "strengths" in different recipes. If you were to rank relative strengths of a selection of primers with one recipe, the ranking will almost certainly change with another recipe. Some tables on pages 44-46 of the Lyman manual show the measured pressure effects of substituting primers in a couple of different loads. Primer pressure ranking can change markedly.
--Bob

I always just browse my manuals. Typically with most loads the primer alone calls for the same charge, but sometimes they vary a tenth or two. Win, CCI, Rem STS, and Ched all seem to perform just fine with the same load components. With top end loads and faster powders it could have a bit of impact, but I hardly ever run top end when it comes to lead shot shell loads as the harder you push, the worse the patterns.

I view primers in shotshells as the least important variable. Considering the bore ratio Of shotshells and the relatively lower pressures normally encounterd, I fail to see much risk. This is particularly true with "midrange" loads such as 12 ga 1 1/8 oz loads at 1150-1200 fps,the kind of stuff we shoot by the 5 gal pail full.
As Reloader7RM also noted, I don't push for max velocity as experience has shown them to simply not produce good hunting performance. I am confining my comments to lead shot.
If you are attempting to load high performance steel, you're on your own and I would carefully follow recipes with these. Personally, I have declared victory and retreated on steel. I purchase factory loads for my non-toxic needs.

I have found some data in a Ballistic Products data book:

Multi Hulls have a 209 primer that is comparable (I. E. produces inconsequential differences) with Nobel Sport 209, Winchester 209, CCI 209, and cheddite 209 primers

I bought a flat of Nobel primers when my club was temporarily out of Winchester. They work fine but are a little bigger and expand the primer pocket to the point that Winchester primers can no longer be used in those shells. I use the Nobel primers in 20 gauge shells and Winchester in 12 gauge. Other than that, I do not worry about which brand of primer I use.

Things are much easier than they were back in the 1960's when Remington shells had one size primer and Winchester had another.

How many of you folks remember having to have boxes of over-powder wads and fiber wads of different sizes so you could build up the correct wad column for the desired load? You also had an amount of compression needed for that wad column. My old MEC could be set to provide the desired amount of compression by adjusting the position of the drop tube. Things have gotten a bit easier for loaders.

Normally I use Cheddite primers in my 20 gauge guns. In my safe I found some Winchester 209 primers and tried them for a change. Immediately I got some light firing pin strikes and failure to fire. Returning to Cheddite primers eliminated the problem.

Has anyone else had this problem with Winchester primers?

I've measured the dimensions of the two primers and while there are some slight differences they do not seem to be enough to cause the problem I am experiencing.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Jim

I've never used any primer other than Win. 209. Never had any light strikes(failure to fire).

This was a new experience for me. On examining the unfired primers the central part seemed to be sunken below the perimeter almost as if the firing pin had driven the center inward until it bottomed out. The gun I use most often is only 1.5 to 2 years old so I know the pin isn't gunked up and giving a lighter than needed strike.

Jim

Jim-

Discovering the cause of the problem you're experiencing with the Win209 primers from a distance is difficult. However, an obvious first diagnostic test would be to try some Winchester factory ammo in your shotgun. The better quality AA shells would be the preferred test ammo.

If there are failures to fire with the factory shells, then the problem is likely caused by your shotgun. If not, the problem is with your reloads, and there are multiple possible reasons for that.

--Bob

I have inter mixed every type of 209 and 209M primer with just about every load I have worked up in a 12 gauge. Never had any issues. Some did seem to pattern better than others though. I also was not pushing pressure limits either.

For about 10 years when I was shooting registered Trap, and another 10 years shooting registered Skeet I was loading about 10k shotshells per year. For the past 10+ years I've just shot for fun, but I'm still loading 4-5k shells per year.

Like jmp300wsm, I have inter mixed several brands of 209 primers (CCI, Fiocchi, Win) with just about every load I have worked up in 12, 20, 28 gauge, and .410 shotshells. Never had any issues. I also do not push the pressure limits either.