Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game B.C. Stone's Sheep-some good news

During the past few years, the Stone's Sheep herds in northern B.C. have declined by about 25-30 %; this due to severe predation, habitat loss and over-harvest by chiefly non-resident "trophy hunters". The Guide-Outfitter concessions of the area, the finest big game hunting left anywhere in North America, are often owned by foreigners and use resident "front men" to meet the lax regulations imposed by successive B.C. governments. They have continually lobbied governments for a larger share of the annual harvest and restrictions on resident hunting, such as L.E.H.

The demands of industry for access to the fabulous resource wealth of the area has also been a factor in the seemingly inevitable loss of B.C. people's birth right to harvest these Sheep. However, just today, an announcement was made by government resource managers that ALL petroleum exploration in two of the most crucial drainages would be STOPPED until studies of the environmental imapct on the Stone's Sheep were undertaken and the results thereof analyzed. This is a huge advance in the struggle to preserve B.C. wilderness/wildife from the ravages of "progress", all the more so as it is a neo-con, "business friendly" government that has made this wonderful decision.

The latest harvest figures from the 2005 season show that harvest figures are down almost to 50% of most recent years; even after major cuts to non-resident quotas, the G/Os and their foreign, chiefly American clients, STILL killed 183 Stone's rams to 104 harvested by B.C. hunters. There is a growing movement in B.C. to further limit or even eliminate foreign trophy hunting for these and other rare species of our wildlife and the allocation process is currently under review in the Ministry of the Environment. Hardline Canadian nationalists will very likely influence this process in ways that will preserve our Stone's Sheep, etc. and benefit resident hunters.

It is highly gratifiying to see that even the corporate elite are beginning to realize that conservation and preservation of wilderness/wildlife are far more valuable than the resource rape and environmental devastation that have characterized so much of our history. I hope to see further decisions of this type in coming years.

Not having any trouble reading between those lines of glee...

I fail to see the juxtapositioning of oil exploration, non-resident hunting, and foreign ownership of the guiding concessions in your post, although I can see how they could be cumulative of impact on an area.

You seem to be suggesting a "vast right wing conspiracy". Are you?

Care to spell this out in more detail?

I think that you will find with a little research that guided hunters/fishermen are nearly always more successful than unguided ones. Guides have more resources (horses, gear, camps) and are on the scene more /have more experience than we resident wannabees. Fact of Life. You do NOT want to get me started on Kenai River King Salmon guides ....

I once pointed out to a friend of mine asking hunting questions of me after his first year as Assistant Guide in an over exuberance of confidence in me (which I did answer to the best of my ability) "You have gotten more experience in your 6 weeks of Assistant Guide last year than I get in 5 years of weekend hunting".

Experience & resources makes all the difference.

I also informed him that "All guides are Axxholes", which he dutifully passed on to Prince Radziwhassisname (brother to the Shaw of Iran, whom he guided a few weeks later) during a drunken binge after a successful hunt. (the Prince brought his own cook, and (nameless) never ate so good! - on a hunting trip, yet!)

The last thing the Prince did as he boarded the Cub out of camp was to point his finger at (nameless) and roar " You Axxhole!"

Lynn Castle, Master Guide and boss (axxhole in his own right and since deceased due to crash) - danged near had a stroke right there on the gravel bar. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm always glad to be of help <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

kute
It's about dam time. Good post.

I had friends that bought half interest in a Canadian outfit in 90. They paid 80,000 for 1/2 interest. After one trip to Germany, they sold 14 stone sheep at 10,000 each. Had a 100% kill ratio. The profit they made was excellent. I don't know about now, but back then, the canadians were easy money. They pay next to nothing for leases of queens land. Everyone used to profit.

I hope this attitude of "it's our's, keep out" continues. Without revenue, they will crumble eventually, making for some good deals down the road.

My friend Kutenay, quiet with "good news" is sometimes better than rubbing the "genie"! Let me see, no drilling (no income), no "guide-outfitters" (no income) BUT the locals are happy campers - whoa is me, who is going to pay the bills for the conservation/preservation goodies! Better put your hand on your wallet <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I knew Americans were better sheep hunters but I thought it might be a little closer than that! If we quit coming up there, next thing you know those sheep will be coming down into the agricultural areas and you guys can have depredation hunts on ewes. So there is an upside to this.

Guess I need to get lucky enough to draw my second sheep tag in Colorado or my first one in Utah or New Mexico.

I'm not proposing to close sheep hunting from the guide-outfitter's.But I do support a reduced quota system and LEH draws were the majority of the draws go to the residents first.Just like I would think a resident in Alaska should have first kick of the can for game or a resident of Texas should have the first option for deer hunting ect.

OK, honest injun, raise your hands if you would be happy if the numbers quoted by Kutenay were switched to 104 "anyone not a Canadian" and 187 solely set aside for Canadian consumption? You can see my little Texan hand waving in the air! How 'bout you? Just how many Stones does one need hangin in their house? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hell ya, if sheep meat is so tasty, run down wyoming and buy a herd. LOL

This post is about the very welcome change of attitudes/behaviour on the part of the current (and past) B.C. government(s). It is much less about how B.C. wildlife should be allocated, however, things are changing here.

Many B.C. people now oppose foreign trophy hunting and also foreign ownership of G/O concessions as the G/Os have strongly advocated policies that lessen residents access to and harvest of OUR wildlife. Whether I or any B.C. hunter has one or fifty Stone's rams hanging on our walls has nothing to do with the crucial action needed to preserve and enhance the populations of these rare animals. Those who appear to think that they have some "right" to one or more of these rams, when they are not Canadians or B.C.'ers simply aggravate the anti-foreign hunter attitudes now current in B.C.

I am opposed to ANY foreign hunting of ANY Canadian/British Columbian animal in ANY situation where the opportunities for residents are curtailed by limited entry draws or seasonal/annual limits on harvest; this is the case with much of our sheep hunting where one can only shoot a ram every four years. This means that NO foreign hunting should be tolerated and the miniscule amount of $$$$ derived from such hunters is not worth the cost to we who OWN B.C. and OUR wildlife.

Actually, I expect that public pressure to end foreign trophy hunting will greatly increase in the very near future and why should we residents try to prevent this, given the attitudes of so many foreign hunters toward us and OUR wildlife. All foreign investment in and ownership of G/O concessions should be outlawed and this activity restricted to native-born Canadians only, it's OUR country.

The next Provincial Government will, almost certainly, outlaw non-resident hunting here in B.C. Those who arrogantly spew nonsense about this alienate we residents who might be inclined to lobby against this. It seems odd to me that anyone would deliberately piss off the very people who are fighting to preserve these sheep, but, that seems to be the way it is.

For a few years, Kansas would not allow non-resident big game hunting. Colorado decided they were not going to allow Kansas hunters. That year Kansas let in Non-resident big game hunters.
I understand most hunting block s in BC are being bought by anti hunters so as to close them to hunting. This is more of a problem than non-resident hunters.
In my limited experience, when there are fewer permits, the price goes up. The animal gets hunted anyway.

Not exactly,friend. When the pressure came it was from residents wanting to make money off nonresidents. After all, everyone knows there's a B&C buck behind every bush in Kansas.
P.S. Don't believe all the promoters. That's not to say there are no big bucks, just not enough for the hype.

kutenay is not saying anything anti,he's just pro Canadian.
Nothing wrong with that.And he holds what I believe is
the local mans view on wildlife management.Same as Arizona
residents want the lions share of elk tags etc...

FWIW,if you want a stone ram...you better go ASAP because
they will be equal to the cost of a Desert BH soon.

Kutenay, my friend, as I have expressed before I am impressed with your nationalist pride but ask that you try to get real as in trying to squeeze just a soft touch of a little reality into your pride. We in Texas might say "chill"! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

If we did not know you as as a sharing, kind, give and forgive type person, one might think you had just a slight hint of greed under that otherwise soft spoken persona we have come to know. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Just like my favorite son, President Bush, will not "build the wall" to our South you will likely see no wall built around YOUR stones, although I know you will continue to give it the good fight.

There is no doubt in my feeble mind that all of the non-resident hunters that have been coming to Texas for many many years in the hopes of killing a "Big Whitetail" is the very reason that the cost of hunting here has been driven through the roof for both resident and non-resident hunters alike. Just like it has or will for Kansas.
That being said; there is a lot of money to be made from these ventures and like it or not it's not going to change for the better.
The politicians who make these decisions are controlled by the money and it makes no difference if they happen to be in office in Texas or Canada.

Just a simple man's 2 cents worth!!!!!

DT

limited supply + increase in demand = higher costs.

Certainly that complex algebraic equation is very true in the great brush country of S. Texas.

Where is this equation going to apply if my frined Kutenay gets his Wall around the Stones:

limited supply+increasing demand-zero access=No Money= higher local taxes? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Someone is going to make up the slack...Residents will have
to pony the difference in lost revenue to the gvt via higher
tag costs.

And any nonresident hunting of stones sheep allowed will be just for guys with deep-deep pockets.

correctamundo! Or, the elected officials in Canada can take a lesson from those in the USA and do something crazy - cut costs - oh no, no, no! And George met with his counterparts from Mex and Canada just last weekend to assure all three countries were on the "same page"! Hold on to your collective WALLETS!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />