Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game B.C. Stone's Sheep-some good news

Doggone it Horn, ya dun gone and dun it now! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />For your future reference, if you have not been here long, you should look up the threads under "kutenay" and get yourself ready because the Schitt is coming your way.

Nah, I am not into a slagging contest with anyone, "Greenhorn" included. I have made the points I think useful and have no desire, need or responsibility to "justify" my opinions as it's MY country and Canada's wildlife.

The Provincial Government here is now involved in re-accessing the game allocation in terms of resident/non-resident and I am submitting some ideas to them. They are "pro-business" and tend to be rather indifferent to we resident hunters and to conservation issues; I hope that this decision concerning drilling in Stone's habitat is evidence of a shift in their priorities.

In any event, the Stone's Sheep populations are substantially lower than they were and something has to change, I think that eliminating foreign hunting should be the first step.

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Greenhorn, substitute MT for B.C. in all the above "incessant whining" and then tell me you would be happy with the situation; Didn't think so. Its easy to arm chair the situation when it doesn't negatively affect you.

Change is coming, and when it does, we'll kick back with a Canadian beer and listen to all the "incessant whining" about the lack of opportunities for foreign hunters.

Lastly, if your thinking of having a pissing contest with Kute and the rest of us B.C. hunters over our hunting, save your whiz, we ain't backin down. You would not stand for us setting up shop in your state and trying to monopollize Montana's hunting, so don't expect us to bend over and give you ours. Your the exact model of American that we are going to rid our wilderness of, and I'm betting you'll be first in line whining the loudest.

RO

Hey don't answer questions for me without giving me an opportunity to answer for myself. And just so you know, I'm not going to be whining about anything, got plenty of great hunting here in MT. You'd never, ever catch me whining about lost opportunities due to an outfitter refusing to take me hunting in my own state. What a joke!

MT isn't BC. MT doesn't allow residents to hunt limited quantity big game species EVERY year. But it hasn't "outlawed" foreign hunters either. And it hasn't "outlawed" somebody doing business, based on where that person was born.

Please give me specific examples of nasty YANK outfitters who have fugged things up for you, or how they have monopolized the hunting and devastated the wild game, and taken from you. My guess is, like Kutenay, you won't bother answering specific questions.

Let me say that I do not know ANYTHING about BC sheep, the issues, problems, etc. I welcome the opportunity to learn from you guys. However, what I do know is that judging somebody by where they were born, and not by who they are, is a complete crock of [bleep].

I have tried to discuss this in a courteous fashion, but, you seem to think that you have some right to question me and my fellow B.C. resident hunters about what we wish in our Province. You don't know schitt about B.C. and you also don't understand that I am NOT obligated to reply to any of your obnoxious queries; it is, as RiverOtter pointed out, Americans like you who antagonize people here with your incredible arrogance and this motivates us to keep ALL foreigners out.

You may shoot your mouth off all you want to, it does not matter as I think that you are simply a deliberate troublemaker here, with a specific agenda. I have, as it happens, requested hunt opportunities from a number of G/Os here over quite a number of years and some of them told me that they would not take residents while others did not even bother to reply to e-mails, polite letters or phone calls.

If, you look on the websites or hunting mag. adverts of various G/Os, you will see American addresses, including your friend, Brian Martin who is NOT a Canadian and who does not belong here. Your attitude has helped me make up my mind, I will be working on eliminating foreign hunting here, permanently and, laddy, it will happen.

As to my sheep hunting, I have gone several times, by horse and backpack and have found legal rams; these were not huge trophies and so I chose not to kill one. I will be going into a spot I have researched in the Rockies this coming opening day for R.M. Bighorns, up north for a pack-in Stone's hunt and maybe for California's in the Chilcotin.

I can and would only shoot one ram and even then it has to be a monster as I hunt for different reasons than you obviously do, but, given MY resource base, I can do that............can you?????

You remind me of the Yankee "draft dodgers" that infested B.C. in the early '70s, you just won't see that you are exactly what is causing B.C. people to turn against foreign, especially American, hunters. But, keep it up, it assists us to demonstrate the arrogance, greed and disrespectful attitude that we do not want and will not have in B.C.

You openly admit that you don't know anything about this issue, but, you KNOW who the best outfitter in B.C. is????? This is about as credible as the rest of your rant and shows that you are a b.s. slinger with an obvious agenda.....are you a "booking agent" for Brian Martin and/or other American G/Os? Probably.

What could be behind that? Why wouldn't your money be as good as mine?

Me neither, I'm talking about outfitters preventing me as a resident from hunting in the areas I want to hunt or hazing the wildlife in said area because they think they have some God given right to all the game in their territory for their rich foreign clients.



There is a big difference between "Hunting" every year and "Harvesting" every year. B.C. doesn't allow a resident hunter to harvest a sheep every year.

As for "limited quantity" big game, everything is limited <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. That's why we have LEH, open/closed seasons and bag limits. Regulations can work quite well as a management tool, but when it comes to excluding hunters due to lack of animals, it should start with foreigners.

I don't recall anyone saying we should "outlaw" foreign hunters. We just want residents prioritized for the animals we have and if cuts have to be made to save stocks then it should be foreigners first. Especially when their not even a resident of Canada.




I already did in my first post on this subject, earlier in this page. Don't tell me you didn't read the whole thread and just jumped in after reading the last post <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.
There are many other similar accounts from resident hunters every year, especially in sheep country.




May be if you would have started out like that in your first post
we could have gotten somewhere. You have done nothing but make me and most other B.C. resident hunters(and non hunters) care even less if all foreign hunters are excluded from B.C. hunting.



I care a lot more about what a person does to contribute to society than who they are or where they were born, but be damned if some made of money foreigner is going to set up shop in my backyard and infringe on my privileges in favor of another foreigner while I take it all in stride. Don't think it can be laid out much clearer than that.

Contrary to what you may see on CNN, most Canadians do have a lot of pride in what is ours and we are willing to go toe to toe to keep it.

RO

Kutenay, you're a real piece of work. I'll question whoever the hell I want. I could give a rat's ass what you try to push in your province, but I suspect it will take more than a ignorant blowhard such as yourself to accomplish much of anything. We have residents of our state that feel the same way as you about non-resident hunters. People like you are everywhere, and your fantasies of having all the game to yourself due to some God granted "birth-right" is about as likely as you becoming the next King of Spain. So put away your crack-pipe buddy.

If you're a resident of BC and have to inquire with (rely on) an outfitter to do your hunting, you must be lacking something. I suspect THAT is why you are so hostile about things, specifically, the successful US hunters and kick-ass outfitters that were born in the good old US of A.

As for Bryan, his reputation speaks for itself and I don't have to stick up for him. He's booked solid and has to turn hunters away. Don't misquote me, I said if there was a better outfitter, I'd have to see it to believe it. The US address on web-site is that of his parents, who manage a lot of his paperwork while he is working in his camps or in Asia guiding sheep hunters.

You mention my disrespectful attitude... What have you demonstrated that merits any level of respect from me?

You're pissed because I mentioned a GREAT outfitter in BC that was born in the USA, it's as simple as that.

How's that backpacking trip going??

Because they might show you a "good" spot and they're worried you may not want their assistance in the future. As a resident, you could pay your own way in and hunt the area they took you. Me personally, I can live with that, but if that outfitter won't take me as a client and then attempts to keep me out(while foreigner are allowed in) or uses his plane to haze animals in the area I'm hunting; Then I'm really pissed.

RO

River Otter, did the outfitter hazing the sheep get reported? Was he a US-born outfitter and does that have a direct relationship to his activities?

Answer this please... Aren't the outfitter limited on the number of sheep they can take in there areas??

Agreed that residents should get priority. That was never questioned by me. Outlawing or eliminating non-resident hunting was what I was commenting on.. did YOU read the posts above?

Whatever. And who's the "made of money foriegner" you are talking about? Oh let me guess... anybody who is an outfitter must be wiping their ass with Canadian bills.

Kutenay, I think you might have mixed up your antagonism towards your Provincial/Canadian policies with foreigner's making good use of your provinces/country's liberal policies.

People are opportunist's and smart people make the best use of opportunities presented. That's how your fore-fathers ended up in Canada to begin with. You of all people know that.

Bryan is a dual national and he and Greenhorn happen to be two of the finest guys you could probably ever share a hunt with. Greenhorn can speak for himslef, but he's no booking agent. Last time I checked he's an engineer. If you need further proof of Bryans character, call Andrew or Dana over at Mystery Ranch and they'll talk your ear off with nothing butn positive comments. I was selling Bryan 100's of lbs of Freeze Dried foods and gear for his concession in 1999 when he first started in Spatsizi. He's worked his ass off to make that dream come true and no one loves that country more than he, I'll promise you that.

I have no idea whether Bryan's concession in the Spatsizi is the best Stone country in BC but I'd hunt with him in a heartbeat as he's an honest, hardworking guy and his hunts are not for couch potatoes, being mostly backpack hunts. Besides, the Spatsizi country would be worth the trip, sheep or no...

Take care you old Viking... I still owe you a Moose Drool!

River Otter, we have outfitters and ranch managers who regularly haze game from public land to their private ground as well. Guess what? They were born locally.

Anyone with an eyeball and an a$$hole can see who the "piece of work is." In case you lack those two simple attachments, it ain't Kute.

Your board name speaks volumes "green horn." Its pretty obvious from reading your posts that you brought a knife to a gun fight.

RO

Edited to add: a few posts were added while I was typing. I will respond again when it slows down, so the posts fit where they are intended.

RiverOtter, you're way off base.

If the shoe was on the other foot and the issue was occuring in MT, I'm still betting green horns tune would be a lot different. As were not face to face, I can only form an opinion based on his "keyboard attitude", which to me, wreaks of arrogance.

When it comes to hunting, I get a little defensive, especially when its coming from someone who lives in another country.

RO

Let me guess, they still call it Fair chase hunting! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Hazing game with planes/Helicopters(for hunting purposes especially) is not only illegal in B.C., but totally unethical. It don't matter where your born.

Edit: A guide territory in B.C. is NOT private ground(may be it is in MT) it is Crown Land. Some outfitters act like its theirs though. They don't have anymore rights to the land than I have to the land my trapline covers.

RO

RO, you're dead wrong, we'd not whine or point fingers but get into action to change it. Besides, we have many other issues far more serious that threaten our hunting than what you have in BC and that's a fact.

This isn't about us damn foreginers... the problem is your typically liberal Canadian policies. As I said, smart people are opportunist's and take advantage of opportunities presented, just as your fore-fathers did.

It wasn't too many decades ago a sizeable portion of BC was clamoring to suceed from Canada and become a US state. If you think thing's are fugged up now, I can only imagine how bad they'd be if that had happened.

Well, this has about run it's course and has made it clear to me exactly what I (and other B.C. residents) must do. I won't get into the namecalling as it is not important to me what some foreigner thinks, but, I will be in touch with the Vancouver media next week to discuss features on foreign hunting and it's negative effect on B.C.

As to Greenhorn, RiverOtter, don't waste your energy, it is simply not important what he thinks or says and his attitude here actually is what I have learned to expect from Americans involved with exploiting B.C.'s resources.

RO, like Brad said, we got our own issues here. I'm not a fan of the outfitting and guiding industry.. not by a long shot.

My point with the local MT outfitting crew hazing game went over your head. I agree with your comments on it, obviously. The point I was trying to make was these guys were locals.

You can't tell me all your 'born in BC' outfitters are picture-perfect sportsmen and stewards of the land, and the 'born the USA' guys are all complete evil culprits. I'm sure there's good and bad of both strain.

I'll ask again.. was the outfitter reported for hazing the sheep? Was he born in the USA? What was his name?

Or could it possibly been some unsuccessful hunters making up a bullshit story as to why they didn't connect on a sheep?

Kutenay, do what you gotta do.. The rest of us will wait on pins and needles to see the results of your efforts. I'll check in with you on a regular basis here on this USA based web-site. May the force be with you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Also, good luck on bagging that sheep, my condolences to the outfitter that has to take you.

But weren't you supposed to be backpacking?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />