Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Solid selection?

I can "see the difference" between an azzhole, and a Gaping Azzhole.


You're a gaper. For sure.

No need to be rude.

Gunner

I doubt that most makers of solids have much experience with charging elephants yet they have an opinion on solids and in fact make them and they work very well. So much for experience being the only way to gain insightful knowledge.

Don't argue with the speciist. Apparently a buffalo, or even multiple buffalo don't rate as dangerous game, or not as dangerous as elephant, rhino, lion, and leopard. Although I'm not sure why you would use a solid on leopard or lion.

Almost all of you have more experience than myself. I respect differing opinions and wish we would all just get along.

Go read Pierre fan der Walt's "African Dangerous Game Cartridges" and you will learn why flat-pointed solids beat round nosed solids on big game. Also why monolithic solids such as North Fork, G.S., and CEB are better than lead cored ones. I don't have time to explain it here.

I have used North Fork 300 grain .375 and 450 grain .458 solids on elephant, buffalo, and hippo and I recommend them. I have had no feeding problems with two Model 70s though I have heard of some who have had such problems. I have also heard bad things about performance of the new Hornady solids though I have no experience using them. As for Barnes, I believe they are round nosed and made of bronze, which is why the ATFD was giving them problems. North Forks and possibly others are made of pure copper.

Your post is such a poor example of an Aristotelian Syllogism that it would result in a failing grade for a first year logic student.

Lap Dog:

An inability to express one's self in standard english, coupled with the use of scatological references is the mark of an uneducated man. You just qualified under that definition. If you're going to write in Ebonics, at least buy an Ebonics dictionary.

Thanks for your input. I have read "African Dangerous Game Cartridges" and it was quite informative.

I intend to bring Northfork solids on next year's safari both in .416 and .470, but have never hunted with them before. As soon as I get a few free days, I will begin testing. The 400 grain .416's are custom loaded for my .416 Rigby, at 2,200 fps and 2,400 fps.

My question is whether you were able to recover any of the Northforks. If so, did they show any signs of deformation, such as bending or riveting? What velocities were they loaded to? Did they strike heavy bone on the way in?

Empty rhetoric....void of substance. It takes a lot more to impress me.

You have failed to distinguish between your right to challenge the substance of another man's opinion,and his right to express it.This subtle nuance is lost on you; your ego has you completely fogged in.

Who made you the Gatekeeper of the expression of opinion?

Anytime you want a debate, I'm your Huckleberry

BTW, you're losing this one....and I don't know ANYTHING about solid bullets

End of conversation. You're a waste of energy.

I used 450gr. North Fork FP Solids in my .458 Win Mag (72gr. AA2230 for 2215fps) last year in Zimbabwe on a couple giraffe. Obviously not DG, but they do indeed have thick hide, muscle and bone.

Giraffe was broadside and I aimed 8-10 inches behind the notch in the front chest between the legs. He dropped at the shot.

Second giraffe I attempted the same shot, but hit well forward and he was off to the races. Second shot through the hip, third shot through the spine. Looked like he did a comical cartwheel as he came crashing down.

No bullets recovered.

While I�ve had WinchesterModel70 on �ignore� for quite a while now, it�s become quite apparent through other posts on this thread that he�s off and running again. So I�ll try to clear a few things up.

Yes, I have hunted dangerous game, and put quite a few solids of different makes into both Cape and water buffalo, including some no longer made, including A-Square Monolithics, two kinds of Barnes monolithics, Nosler�s relatively new monolithic, Speer tungsten-core Grand Slams and the Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer. Aside from that personal experience, I�ve been alongside several companions during their dangerous game hunts, and twice have even been �invited� by the PH involved to help follow up game they wounded, once on a Cape buffalo hunt and another time on a leopard hunt. (If somebody doubts this, they can contact the PH�s, Rob Klemp of Kimberley, South Africa and Paddy Curtis of Bulawayo, Zimbabwe.) I didn�t have to shoot either time, but found both follow-ups interesting, especially going after a wounded leopard at night.

Also hunted hippo pretty hard a couple years ago in Tanzania, but have no interest in head-shooting one in the water, so determined to do it on land. We tracked a bull out of one small lake in the Selous, and got within 10-15 yards before he jumped in thick stuff, but there was no chance for a good shot, and after that he quickly ended up in another little lake. Did get into a little bit of a situation with a water buffalo once. The bull had two .416 softs and a solid in the chest before he got into some thick cover, and I ended up putting a Sledgehammer into his rear end (all I could see) at 17 yards, trying to break him down. It got one hip but not the other, because it veered, but he tried to swing around and come and I put another through both shoulders and the spine. That bullet worked.

This business of supposedly having to pull the trigger yourself to gain valid experience, however, is ridiculous. A few years ago I was on an elk hunt in Colorado, and one of the other hunters in camp was an obnoxious blowhard who one of my companions called a �two-number man,� because he always described his hunts (and he was always describing his hunts, whether anybody was interested or not) by saying, �I got a 327 bull at 463 yards,� or a 345 at 394. He also bragged about taking 30-some bulls, all with magnum cartridges. The outfitter himself had only killed half a dozen elk in his life, because he didn�t have much chance to hunt and always ended up with plenty of meat anyway. But his hunters had killed an average of 25-30 elk a year for the 30 years he�d been in business, so he did have some experience with various rifles, bullets, etc. Who would you prefer to believe about elk rifles, the two-number man or the outfitter?

There are other ways to find out about bullets as well. In my job I get to talk a lot to the people who make them, thus discovering the difficulties of developing a new bullet. The better bullet makers do considerable testing in various kinds of media before ever trying them on animals. (I suspect to WM70 this would not just be suspect but unmanly, but I�ve known Craig Boddington for about half my life now, and know he�s done considerable testing of solids in media.) I�m also frequently invited to test new bullets, partly because manufacturers know I�ll do it thoroughly. Part of that is doing a lot of autopsies myself, the reason my knives and hands have ended up bloody in any number of animals from deer, springbok and feral goats to grizzlies, Alaskan moose and yes, buffalo. (Oh, another thing about Craig. As far as I know, he�s never shot a charging Cape buffalo�or at least he hadn�t only a few years ago. According to WM70, this would seem to disqualify him from having opinions about rifles and bullets for buffalo.)

One of the interesting things about being a hunting and gun writer is that occasionally you run into people so self-centered they firmly believe only their personal experience counts for anything. One obvious argument against this viewpoint is that if all human beings depended totally on personal experience, rifles wouldn�t exist, because we�d be hunting with rocks. One of the main characteristics of humanity is the ability to communicate over generations. It�s one of the essential ways we learn�and it�s why I asked Shakari about GS flat-points. I�ve been fooling around with rifles for about half a century now, and use every way I can to learn something new, including going out with my companions after I�ve taken my animals, instead of hanging around camp or heading home, as many have done.

Thankfully, not many hunters get pissed off at the mere thought of hunting writers, but there have been a few. One was a guy in a South African hunting lodge several years ago. As soon as he found out what I did, he wanted to debate the use of the .375 H&H on Cape buffalo, because he and his son had taken 5 buffalo, all with the .458 Winchester, because they knew the .375 was too small. I was sitting around relaxing with friends so really didn�t want to deal with him, so suggested he talk with the PH about it, partly because I knew the PH personally preferred to use the .375 when backing up buffalo hunters, and had personally killed 600 or so aside from the dozens he�d finished off for clients. But the guy didn�t want to do that. He�d zeroed in on the gun writer and that was that.

Obviously WM70 is one of those guys. I care less about his opinion than I do where my Labrador schidts in the yard, but since he�s insisted on turning this thread into something other than a discussion felt a need to comment.

Thank you MD
Cheers

No explanation needed John, Think I've seen that d**khead on another African forum.....just sayin'


maddog

I'm sure Craig Boddington, whom I've known for 40 years, give or take, would rather talk to you than WM70 any day.

Craig's a good man. Met him in 1982 at a writer's conference, when we were both 29 (born within a couple weeks of each other, as a matter of fact) and he was editing the annuals for G&A and Petersen's Hunting. He gave me a couple of assignments and after he became editor of PH, hired me as a staff writer. You get a good measure of a guy when you work for him, and he was one of the best editors I've ever worked for. Was sorry to see him resign and start writing full-time for my sake, but not for his! Since then we've gotten to share hunting camps a few times, but not as much in recent years.

Maybe five years ago it looked like I might end up going to Africa twice in one year, a couple months apart. I love Africa but don't love the plane flights, even after getting used to them. Mentioned it to Craig and he said, quite knowingly, "Be careful what you wish for, because you might get it!"

John, certainly you do not need to stand and justify your back ground or knowledge. Kudos to you for doing it, but certainly not needed in my opinion.

Strange how some folks can just be confrontational when they think they know it all. I've personally had those attacks in my profession also. I think you handle them better than I ever have.

Always enjoyed your no BS suggests & help, thank you!

Well, I've never stood in front of a charging elephant, but I have stood in front of some first class jerks on a number of occasions and you, sir, appear to be every bit one of those.

Geez, doesn't look like the gallery on this thread is behind you...

Now excuse me, I have to take my uneducated self to college...where I teach.

Back to the OP's query. Find the Terminal bullet performance thread in the big bore forum over at AR. Wading through that thread will give a good perspective to your question.

So... Are my old .375 fmj lead-core round nose Hornady bullets worthwhile for Cape Buff, or should I just shoot 'em up for practice and get some new flat-nose mono-metal solids?

Or, are .375" solids even necessary for Cape Buff? I've got a good stash of 300 gr Nosler Partitions...

Plains game hunt booked, but I'm thinking ahead to a return trip and Cape Buff sounds mighty interesting. I've no intention of ever even going for elephant. Buffalo though... That could get intense!

Guy