If you've followed our work in the 12ga FH thread you've seen our 585 HE cartridge and its development. We have barrels of cases and more coming.
We have put it in all kinds of guns, and tested it with 650gr bullet over 3000 fps as heavy load to test the brass, and also for lighter game like deer and hogs and target fun we found that some of the 440gr to 540gr 58cal Minie bullets work great. Cases have same overall loaded length as 505 Gibbs.
First picture shows it beside a Gibbs. Next pic is a barrel of cases, Third, representative of typesof guns we have it in.Ed
The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment. � WARREN G. BENNIS
Many guys like to stroke so to soeak, big bores.. And here is way they can do so without spending a years pay.They can get 100 cases, die set, and barrel to put in something for 750 bucks. We get asked about recoil. Guns are weighted a little, thick pads, can be ported, use moderate loads, they shoot nice...And moderate loads still much faster than 577NE. And can be had without costing a years pay. Most local users(only 1 in 10000 hunters go Africa) can shoot lighter .585 Minie bullets, which load for about 95 cents each, once you have cases... Ed
Asked about putting it in #1, on another forum. And it is perfect case for the Ruger #1. The very few #1s ever done in 577, they had to relieve metal behind the action shoulders that breach block rests against because of rim. Ours don't have to and the #1s extractors I've seen work better with belted than big rimmed. Ours holds more powder, cases built for extreme pressures.Ed
Case doesn't need special made shellholder, number 31 RCBS fits fine. It is a straight belted case that holds up to 190gr of doublebase powder. Powder need not be like charcoal, IE, really slow powder, as necked needs. So it has effiencies of 37-39%, where necked cases are about 29%. Here is one done in a Savage..
The loads tested at high pressures about 65,000 psi, when extracting, the weight of the bolt after opening pulled cases out. We've fired moderate loads in singleshots that we mono-blocked barrels into and the cases fall out after firing. Here are couple a nice singles with 585HE in them.
Cases are made super strong, in the same factory run as the super high pressure Cheytac cases. The base of our case is same size ahead of belt as Cheytac/Gibbs bases. Done with same cups and draws, just uses a different header, bunter, and sizer. Here is picture of the one we made and the factory one sectioned showing the strong built inside corners. These are not balloon head junk cases.
We and CH4D have die sets, Manson makes reamers, and we have some. Reamer specs all set and the chambers made with them, the cases extract at the highest pressures. Here is pic of one we set with 585HE in a Greener GP.Ed
WE get asked about whether the 585HE is a DD due to being over 50 cal, and no it is not, as we applied for and got a sporting cartridge exemption few years ago.
First picture is base view of cases new and old. On the left is 4 new ones that come with no headstamp that I stamped, and the 6 new ones in the middle has a 585 stamp. We got a barrel full without stamp and guys can wildcat them and put their own stamp on..
Second is side view with some in # 31 holders.No special holders needed. .Notice how uniform belts are on the new shiny ones. Dark ones are ones I made years ago.
Third is one with AP bore rider bullet in with others behind. Maybe make a great long range target cartridge. Got a guy setting up one with long heavy barrel for that.
Here is picture of 585HE with 700gr HP CEB bullet and 750 gr wide meplat CEB bullet..Ed
In the pictures above you see the older first cases I made from Nyati cases and other cases that were Nyati clones. These were straight basic, long, untrimed cases, so I could get the longer case we wanted.
We get asked about the process of doing it and here is picture sketch showing original case, a case with the start of a belt step, and finally a case after it is swaged and sized. Note the belt diameter ends up the same as the base diameter of the original brass. These cases we made years ago was how we got the 585HE started and tested and some guns done. This process can only work with original cases that have a thick corner radius to leave plenty of thickness ahead of the belt. In doing this process with different wildcats we have found cases that wouldn't work.
Now these cases have a diameter that works with regular bolt guns, without extreme machining on the bolt, as opposed to 577NE and Trex. Here is picture of a case held in a Ruger bolt, for example..
And our case is large enough capacity to get the power, without being an oversize, soft case. Thicksided cases relative to size of the case are much harder to harden the heads and the lower body back up to proper strength. because of the extreme annealling needed, in the drawing and heading operations in the manufacturing process. Our cases are made with same cups and draws as the ultra high pressure Cheytac cases, and our real high pressure tests show they perform with no extraction problems.
Here is picture of a O/U I had top barrel sleeved with smooth tube, and use the 585HE in it with lightweight, hollowbase Minie bullets. Shoots about as accurate as foster slugs in a 12ga. Bottom barrel is 3.5" 12ga smooth.
Some more info- For guys in other countries you can get cases from Bertram in Australia. I can send die sets. There is a guy in AUS that has a reamer I sent him.
We have experimented with black powder type of loads and the Minie bullets, The Minies we use are the ones measuring .585". Also for reduced loads with lesser amounts of powder we found that 24ga wads work perfect in the case, like in this picture.
WE did couple guns in smooth barrel to test hollowbase Minies. Found that they work for shot in our case. Holds 3/4 oz of shot. Put a 24ga card on top and glue it in.
We even got one in good ole NEF, with a 585 barrel monoblocked into it and gun weighted, with thick pad. Guy in TX got one also and there is video on ytube-- URL below-- Ed
We have a guy who is working toward getting the 585HE cases into Canada, for guys there to be able to get them from him..
Our case works for black powder type of loads using .585" Minie Bullets also. Here is picture sectioned case with 4 Pyrodex 54 cal pellets stacked behind a 440 gr Minie Bullet.Goes over 2500. Can be loaded with 3 pellets and 24ga cushion wad.
Here is an innovation in a 585HE Falling Block we did. It's in a one piece thumbhole rifle stock. Nice to handle and shoots heavy loads a comfortable as a weighted bolt action gun. FBW brand.
Here is a bunch of barrels we have, the wrapped ones are slow twist just for guys doing 585HE guns to use Minie bullets for deer, hogs, target, and plain ole fun Using black or smokeless.
Here is picture of one being done by a guy on a big Enfield with a nice figured Walnut stock. It is weighted and has a thick pad. Being done African style with thick barrel and integral front sight. You can see a bunch cases in background shelf.--Ed
Hooray the first batch 585 barrels from McGowen has got here, more will be built.They are the regular 1 to 20 twist barrels, and we have 14 that are profiled and polished, and 3 others that are straight blanks, 1 to 20 twist. And 6 slow twist barrel blanks for guys doing mainly Minie bullet guns, and bunch smoothbore blanks...Pics soon.
Here are couple more pictures of the gun guy is doing with nice stock.
Here is picture of 585 FBW falling block with a Knoxx Comstock. Helps reduce recoil in this lighter gun. Ed
Have you built any from a good SxS shotgun? A SxS double rifle in this caliber would be a lot of fun, and useful, too! I realize that getting the barrels regulated would be a pain in the butt (and shoulder, too!) but I for one would love to have such a piece.
MARK
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
I got one in an O/U with top barrel 585HE, and bottom 12ga. Put a liner in top barrel. I don't have stuff to monoblock 585 barrels in to a double monoblock. Be nice to have a 585HE double. Maybe some day I'll sleeve one.
Here is picture of the barrels from McGowen, with other barrels. We got most of the McGowens profiled and some straight blanks. Others we have are the slow twist and smooth...In back some of the cases and die sets.
Here is picture of an Enfield and a BBK in Hogue recoil reducing stocks. These stocks are the rubber coated with the easy to grip, nice pistol grip..Have Mcgowen 26 inch barrels, 1 to 20 twist, barrels are heavy profile and taper to .980 inch at the muzzle.
Here is a visual comparison of why I really like Enfields and Rugers for big bore work. An Enfield on the left.... Lugs built much stronger, simpler to put barrels in actions, without the wall in the middle of front reciever. Easier to shape breaches to feed big cases, so they don't hang up. Left lug longer and forward, simpler to do bolt faces to hold bigger cases...Ed
Here is picture of 585HE in a Montana Rifle Co. PH action. The double stack mag for the 505 Gibbs they make works ok. The Enfield in the Hogue stock above is gone.
We also had guy show us how the case can work for a high energy subsonic cartridge. High energy for subsonic 1600 gr at 1050 fps. The 585HE Whisper Anyone with some way overbore 14.9 mm necked cases on huge actions, can make case inserts for using our case to fire subsonic And fire 650gr or 750 gr at high speeds. Can't get 14.9 Russian cases use ours in same gun with inserts.
Break action I like we did on a CBC by mono-blocking in a 585 barrel set up especially for Minie bullets of 440 to 540 gr.
I got one in an O/U with top barrel 585HE, and bottom 12ga. Put a liner in top barrel. I don't have stuff to monoblock 585 barrels in to a double monoblock. Be nice to have a 585HE double. Maybe some day I'll sleeve one.
Here is picture of the barrels from McGowen, with other barrels. We got most of the McGowens profiled and some straight blanks. Others we have are the slow twist and smooth...In back some of the cases and die sets.
Here is picture of an Enfield and a BBK in Hogue recoil reducing stocks. These stocks are the rubber coated with the easy to grip, nice pistol grip..Have Mcgowen 26 inch barrels, 1 to 20 twist, barrels are heavy profile and taper to .980 inch at the muzzle.
Here is a visual comparison of why I really like Enfields and Rugers for big bore work. An Enfield on the left.... Lugs built much stronger, simpler to put barrels in actions, without the wall in the middle of front reciever. Easier to shape breaches to feed big cases, so they don't hang up. Left lug longer and forward, simpler to do bolt faces to hold bigger cases...Ed
When you decide to build one of these in SxS confguration, I would be all ears! Would love to have one, maybe even the first one. Had an SKB 20 GA that would have been a wonderful donor, but just traded it to a local plumber for a bathroom re model for my wifey
Keep me posted, you HAVE do do these in a SxS someday, somehow....
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
Lots and lots of chopped up 'semi sporterized' 1917 Enfields laying around the gun shows, if I were to snag one, what is the cost to have you convert it to an HE? Including about 100 cases and a set of dies, of course.
I have a beautifull full custom 416 Rigby so don't really need one, but it sure would be a hoot to play with.
Ever tried these cases in a plain 12 GA SxS shotgun with a rifled choke tube at the ends of the barrels?
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
Others have used different 12ga loads with rifled choke tubes with varying success. Accuracy depends mostly on bullet construction/speed. Doubles are not good for high speeds as our slow powder, fast slug loads need heavier barrels than what doubles have.
To have 585HE Enfield done with barrel cost, dies, 100 cases, singlestack mag, in a Hogue stock, and the barrel, metal, chamber and stock fitting work $1300. Without a stock(do your own) $1150. Without mag set up as single shot $1000. The barrels are polished a little and all fancy finish and blueing and stock finish things others can do that have the tools.Ed
You can see from above posts I like Enfields and here is picture of how we set up action for long case and a singlestack magazine. We open bottom of action for length and use a lip type magazine insert to feed cases single stack. And lips are springy so we can load from the top.
Here is the second gun I did years ago in the 585HE, an old style Ruger 77. And at that time I used the cases I made myself and they work great in the gun, high pressure loads, and extracted easy.
Here is some math to show why I really like really big bores. There is term called Average Barrel Pressure, which is the average of all the pressures in a barrel, from the start where you have highest, called peak pressure. to the lowest at the muzzle when bullet exits. For high powered rifles average barrel pressure run 15-18000 psi.
There is a formula that can be used to get Average barrel pressure fairly close if you know the muzzle energy.
We multiply ME times 12 and divide by barrel cross section x length.
Example a 458Win usually loaded to 5000 ft lbs, say in a 24" bbl.
ABP = ( 5000 ft lbs x 12) divided by (.17 sg in x 24") = 15,000 psi
Now you see there isn't a lot of room for big gains, as it would take peak pressures damaging to brass and gun, to get say 50% increase.
Now example of 585HE in the 26" bbl we like, say a 7,000 ft lb load, a real moderate load in this case.
ABP = (7000 ft lb x 12) divided by (.27 sg in x 26") = 12000 psi
The bigger bore allows for a much larger potential, a 50% gain is easy to do.Ed
Here is a few of the variety of bullets we found or know about to use in 585HE, about a third of them, from 440gr, to 750gr, to 1200gr, to 1600gr.
Here is picture of what 200gr powder, in a case that had the powder settled, looks like.
We now have more 585 new straight blanks giving a total of 9 basic blanks, with long ones for guys setting up target guns. And a bunch more of the profiled barrels are being made now to go with new ones we got left. One went on this BBK pictured, 3 on Enfields, one on FBW, one a Ruger, two in PHs. Guys have used 5 of the new slow twist barrels. Ed
There is a guy and his smith in AUS that has a reamer for the 585HE. And maybe another firm there that can get a bunch reasonably priced barrels imported in from the US. Our Mcgowen barrels are high quality, hand lapped, and only half of what getting them in from other places cost. Here is part of stuff that the guys have to work with..
Here is picture of the Mossy 390 action, after I'd set up for the 585HE. Just to see how good the action is, and I have since set barrel back and made it into a 24ga FH. Just makes an easy to work with test gun. Being both use same size bore, and in 24ga with 3" chamber I can use 577 brass for 24ga cases, using same Minie and jacketed as 585HE. 58CAL IN ALL FORMS is where it is at, so to speak......Ed
PS-We have longer barrels now for target work including real heavy ones of 1 5/8 inches, that some guys are working on getting bigger actions set up to use them in. .
Here is a picture of the first 585HE to be done and firing, in Australia, owned by the poster, tankhunter on AR forums. Fellows there can get cases from Bertram. I can send dies and reamers.And can get dies from CH4D. There soon will be 3 reamers there.
And now a company starting to make 585 barrels there. I have about 17 here, so no waiting here.
Allan and Grant Swan. in Redbank, Queensland... allanswan at uplink.net.au.
WE have cases with plain heads if guys need some for wlldcatting, necking down, and they can put on their own headstamp.Ed
We've put some of the 585HE bolt guns in composite and Hogue stocks, and they are rugged for extreme weather. And they don't break under heavy loads. Prices are nice and they have aluminum pillars and/or aluminum bedding blocks. And with their hollow butts very easy to add weight to take up recoil. If lead and epoxy added to a complete fill of the hollow, too much weight, so I found a nice cheap substitute. We now using rubber coated mouse balls that we have bunch of. They are steel with rubber coating, and the right weight. They add just the right weight and and wedge in good. And won't rattle with coating, and we hold them in tight with a piece of dense foam under butt pad.
We get asked about how much speed potential we have. And we start by mentioning cases can hold 190-200 gr of ball powder with the bullets loaded out longer. And have tested those heavy powder loads with 650 gr jacketed bullets, in the Enfield pictured I use as one of my test guns.
And more fun shooting, using a pistol grip on one of the 585HE falling block test guns. Real heavy loads try to spin us around like a weathervane.. Ed
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
Burleyboy- Can be done and I have cases with plain heads for guys wanting to wildcat them, If necked to 50cal be a longer improved version of 505 Gibbs.
I need this rifle like I need a third eye, but damn the torpedo's I want one!
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
It is legal for hunting anywhere I've heard of, as we got a sporting use exemption from ATF DD rules, and it is registered as sporting case. Most places having real big dangerous game prefers guys use big bores, I think..I would think necked down for target use, but the 750gr long pointed 585 cal bullets are very streamlined, and would work as a 600yd or 1000yd target round in a heavy barrel gun.Ed
650 grains a 3000fps?!?!?!?!?! Holy SMOKES, those are going to leave 'a mark' at both ends!
Who makes those bullets and the lighter friendlier ones?
Do you rifles regulate well with both or Several loads?
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
HAve you tried the Sabot muzzleloader bullets that carry a .44 or .45 cal pointed bullet in them? I am thinking along the lines of having two scopes for a rifle, both in identical QD rings that fit on a Weaver/picatinny rail. One dialed in for a heavy DGR load, and maybe one for the Sabot load packing a relatively high BC plastic tipped 300gr 44 caliber bullet. Should be able to get some crazy-azzed speeds out of that, and the Sabot is not going to lead up a barrel, either. One MIGHT be able to even Moly Coat the Sabots! Can one just image an Elk, black bear, wild hog, Zebra or Kudu hit by a 300gr 44 caliber plain lead plastic tipped HP bullet that launched at 3400-3500fps? Maybe a Barnes MZ HP bullet in a Sabot so it holds together?
The versatility of this round is maybe one of its strongest points, especially if that experiment works too. The possibilities are legion.
Another way to go is a fixed peep regulated for the heavies, and then just one scope of moderate X's dialed in for the plains game, softer skinned animal loads.
Last edited by safariman; 07/17/14.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
A related case to our 585 is the 24ga FH that has 3" chamber and brass cases reworked 577NE cases, that we reduce the rim down to .720"... the 24ga size rim...We make minimum chamber so that 24ga plastic cases, 2.5" long just fit. And min chamber cuts down on a lot of brass case expansion, which the wears cases out.
The barrels are same bore barrels as our 585 and the hollowbase minie bullets work great in it, the ones that are .585", 440gr to 540gr. Makes hairy 24ga gun for deer, etc. Be useful in shotgun only areas. Guys on GB sells the .585" minies. And the brass cases, we don't have to wait for them to be made.
Here is what 585HE barrel and its monoblock look like before screwing the barrel in.This one was 585HE, but process same if monoblocking in 24ga FH...Ed
Here is picture of 585HE with 24ga FH ...585 longer one. Both use same bullets/slugs, same caliber barrels. Different easy usages, 24ga FH is an easy setup in break actions and 585HE in bolt actions and falling blocks.
Picture of non-discarding 585/24ga sabot cup I found that holds 458 bullets and slugs tight. It had hammerhead type slug in it that someone pulled out, and they wouldn't stay in tight after pulled. Supposed to be for 20ga, But this sabot was a loose fit in 20ga, though made for 20ga, so I shrunk diameter of bottom rib, fits perfect, super tight, in 24ga and 585HE. A press in fit gives good resistance for good ignition. real tight fit.
Here is a 24ga/585 discarding sabot that holds .452" 45cal pistol bullets. Made by Hornady for 58cal Muzzle loaders.. With 250 gr bullet in 585HE, hopped up load will go about mach 4.
For ease of getting actions in stocks, I like composites.They are strong. come colors, many can be painted with tough surface paint. And They need weight added for big bore use.. An easy way to weight plastic stocks with hollow butts, use rubber coated computer mouse balls, weight comes out perfect, without being too heavy if using that much lead. And coating keeps them quiet, and we hold them in with piece dense foam under butt pad....Ed
You are using Hogue stocks for the Enfield, are these special order or what model are you modifying? I can't find any mention of a Hogue purpose built for the Enfield. If you are modifying an existing stock is it a pillar bed or bedding block stock? Thanks Thaine
First AUS buffalo killed by 585HE. By Tankunter with his Ruger #1.
If you use closeup on picture, you see loaded round on the buffs hide
next to the 585HE Ruger #1.... A nice heavy barreled gun..Ed
I put the 585 in a Savage 112, lots of room lengthwise, figuring out an extractor is a problem, but then got a look at the savage 212, the 12 ga one with big diameter bolt and locking lugs. Its locking lugs are bigger than the lugs in a big PH bolt action. So one day will do one on a Savage 212, and adjusting extractor to fit no problem...Ed
Here is picture of 100 cases loaded with CEB solid nose bullets and hollowpoints. This bullet is a turned solid with wide meplat or wide hollowpoint. .
Here is pic of a Enfield with a jeweled and polished bolt, going to be 585HE. In the back, Bolt jeweling and polishing done by the great craftsmen, Bob Snapp, years ago.
Picture comparing unfired and fired cases showing our tough cases One on the left fired with 650gr at 2400 and base above belt didn't hardly expand, Size the top and reload/shoot again. And AHC will make guns now with our 585HE for any wanting super top quality guns.They have some cases to give to guys as a sample to show guys the case. Ed
Ed, do you change the bolt handles on the actions, or does someone do it for you. I might want to get rid of the dogleg on mine, but could do it afterwards.
Ok I did find a way to change to straight sporty handle on Enfields, which is to cut them off before the dogleg bend an inch away from the bolt body, then I'm able to weld ona nice handle extension I found.
Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like. Usually set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga size to 577NE, to the 585 Nyati with the picture of Ross Seyfreid shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over, to our 585HE the strongest yet.
The 577NE is an offshoot of the 24 gauge caliber, only they went eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the 577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder, then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3" and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.
Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a 24ga FH, a slight regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And stamp the caseheads 24 ga.
For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding reasonable price rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga. The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are about a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made. We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much, with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.
Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH, break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case. Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size. So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun, 24ga, with 458WIN power. .Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.
Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed
Here is a different look at 585 sabots holding 458cal bullets. Sabots hold leafd as well as jacketed.
Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585.
Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB.
The here being the US, as well as our group with barrels, dies, cases, and McGowen with .585 barrels in stock, CH4D with 585HE dies in stock, gunshops with # 31 shellholders. And later few retail outlets setup with cases in stock... . Ed
Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5 cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.
And in a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel can get 650gr spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using 3 times as much powder. 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800. Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.
I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns. . Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like Ruger 77 handle, one on the right . Something even a novice like me can do.....
A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr ones in our 24ga FH. The hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr to 700gr.. The 24ga FH is nice complement to our 585HE for the shotgun only deer hunters... Ed
For lightweight plinking, deer hunting, etc, in 585HE as well as 24ga FH here is picture of 58cal Hornady sabot that holds .451/.452" light bullets 225 to 300 gr. A way to shoot targets economically. Low recoil but a big bang and satisfaction. That sabot is one made for ML, but with .452" bullet in it is a real tight fit in brass cases, to stay in place and give good ignition. A 250 gr bullet would go about mach 4 with a top load..
Here is what 585 bull barrel, target blank looks like, 1 5/8" OD and 32" long. It'll go in heavy action of some kind. 4th one from the left. The one in yellow sleave on top, is a heavy contoured one with muzzle of .980" ..The 5th, 6th, 7th blanks on bottom are straight 1.375" 585 regular twist blanks. One in paper wrapper is slow twist 585 barrel...Ed
Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH. It is .585" diameter and 650 gr and these particular ones are a hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as hard as copper jacketed softs. These have a flat base, and fairly streamlined..
But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they can be soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE. Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out. Ed
In Canada there are 3 guys there now setting up 585HEs, and one setting up 24ga FH. Another friend setting up a 585HE handed out a bunch of cases and info sheets at the SCI convention. We are getting some more reamers made. Some more dies sent here. Another pallet load of cases coming.
Here is picture of a light spitzer bullet in the 24ga FH case, will work in 585 also. Good for hunting and medium range target work.
Here is picture of 585HE we did in the FBW with regular two piece stock.We put a tenon on the forearm to wedge into the front of the action below the barrel and a tight barrel band on the front. Ed
Here is comparison of our 585HE and Trex case, and while we have barrels of cases and more coming and many available in stock in AUS, many are finding Trex cases scarce...
Here is picture of a neat falling block that could work for our 585HE with little work, the Wickcliff.
Here is picture of the singlestack mag box we built for Enfields fitted to the bottom of BBK action.Very little changing and it fits a lot of different actions, as a fixed magazine, with its own feed lips,and we load from the top.Ed
Here is picture of a 585HE we did in a Mauser 98 as a singleshot test gun. We used a composite stock we adapted to fit action. Weighted to 12 lbs.
And speaking of singleshots a fellow in the Yukon is just finishing up one in a Ruger #1.
Here is one reason to like 585 calibers is bullet varieties, this picture is only about half the bullets and slugs we know of, and most can easily found. Ed
One of the first of modern 585 caliber wildcats, since WW2, the 575 Miller Greiss Magnum, was first in records in the fifties, It was made from BMG brass shortened to 2.70" long and necked up from 50 cal to .585" with what looks li\ke a little sharper shoulder..
They rebated the rim quite a ways to .618" to maybe fit 98 Mauser bolt.Used a special action. Listed as a shooting 750gr bullet about 2400 fps. It holds about 150gr of ball powder under a 750 gr bullet, maybe little less than 3" 50cal spotter case, where our 585HE holds 180gr under a 750gr'.
We made one for experimenting on a full length BMG case.With rim left same as the base and would need a BMG sized bolt and action. I'm glad to be a big bore wildcatter, and happy to be in the company of big bore nuts, old and new. Years ago when guys did big wildcats they took what was available, to rework, and maybe they could have used the 3" spotter case if they could have found couple barrels full.
But it takes a lot of work to reform cases that much, with the multiple dies, multiple annealings and case trimming and extreme reworking of regular rifle actions, which is why I like our cases, simple and straight, any regular long bolt action, falling block, break action, etc, the 585 good for dozen or more heavy loadings, moderate loads, last forever..
In making our 585HE we made it a size, a new belted size, to fit regular size guns, not BMG actions,that didn't have to be used from a tripod, and could be put in a favorite, the Ruger #1, other falling blocks, without taking metal out of the feed trough. And to get the same and much more powder space like a cut back, real short, fat, BMG wildcatted cases to 585, we made longer case and worked with a group buy to get a factory run. We thank gun nuts for the help.
Here is picture from the great site, cartridgecollector dot net, of the M&G Mag .Ed
Sorry to be away so long. Health and money problems. Here is how the top of the singlestack magazine looks that we made to use in Enfields and other bolt actions. The lips that hold the cases are springy, and we can load it from the top. The inside of action below feed rails are relieved a little and that allows feed lips to move and work ok.
Here are couple 24ga FHs break actions, a CBC with monoblocked 585 barrel in it, and a guys NEF he had a 585 barrel monoblocked in. The 585 barrels are perfect fit for 24ga, and 585 Minie Bullets are a perfect for barrel and 24ga case fit.
Another matter---It seems strange for me to ask for help when I ask guys on the net for help at times. . But I really am in a bind.
That is truth, Our small income disappeared from our farms truck garden business, as my my knees are shot and can't hardly walk, I can't do field work, etc. And the wife's lung condition got so bad she can't work.. So we finally had to quit that, but were and are in debt. We need little extra money to try to keep our health fixed up and pay bunch of back bills and utilities. As well as needed for traveling to doctors, treatments,drugs, etc.
Could you all maybe get together with others on these forums and kinda take up a collection to help get me out of my troubles and debt. Like 10 or so bucks each put into our paypal account as gifts. And if you want to mail it, contact me to get you my mailing address.
The Paypal email is jegunownerstv.com
Best Regards- Ed
PS-- I really need help. Not astronomical amounts, but fairly fast. Just a little from each to help. A quick boost so to speak. We never made anything on the 12ga FH, etc, work and research. The little coming from sale of 585 brass, dies, barrels,etc, goes to pay to the places, where rest of the money is owed, for getting them made..Ed
Here is picture of 375 Warlord next to our 585 case he made it from. He is going to make couple later necked down to 416, and 458. There is another guy working on doing one necked down to 357 wildcat.
Here is a picture of our poster Biebs on AR, 585 HE, in a MPI stock. He used a big Enfield action, with a fancy jeweled bolt.
We found couple other big actions for our 585, that can even feed really long overall length loaded cases, like 4.5" long or more, if you are using long pointed bullets for real long range target and hunting work. One is Lawton 8000 Cheytac action, and the other is Stiller Cheytac actions made similiar, justa newer version. Both actions come in 1.45" diameter and a 1.60" diameter recievers.
And Vestals Gunsmithing in Virginia does great work, decent prices, has these actions and will build you fancy 585 HEs. .. He has, working with another guys mag box setup, setup an extra long, good working, single stack, center feed, magazine..He has our 585 HE reamer on hand, we have barrels, cases, and reloading dies..Ed
Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First laminated thumbhole stock. Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture. The scope rail is a piccatiny,. if you need long range work.
The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil block ahead of recoil inleting for the longer action, drill new screw hole Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag.
About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the sporterizing, welding bottom metal straight. Many think straightening is a huge job needing special jigs, etc, Not really, just use one for a jig with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom. When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat. The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!! Just keep on building...Ed
Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for Enfields. On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just mill down and shape it so debth of the pocket matches bottom section of weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in hole tight. Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep sight like a compact UTG sight...
If we have a welded up Enfield rear bridge, then we can use sight like on this gun a guy is doing. Has a rosewood laminate stock. He will have it checkered, sanded, with fancy finish.
Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by a guy in Canada. Its straight back, high comb stock, handles recoil great... Ed
More about 585 BB short case for lever guns, pistols,AR Uppers, Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-70. One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle barrel, to simulate pistol recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a case that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel. Or rolling block rifles and pistols....Ed
Here is a picture from the back, of a big Lawton action that our 585HE fits in nice. Scope rail on there is tapered for long range shooting.
Here is what our wildcatter buddy is making from our 585HE brass to see how they look and experiment with. He is getting reamers, dies, and gun setup first for the 375.
In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy. By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud.... Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums site. Ed
A poster reading our threads said '' I'm slowly becoming a recoilapheliac''.. That is neat term , and very glad that folks are catching the big bore fever.
Here is a simple, yet neat peep sight we can use on the rear sporterized bridges of Enfields, works on other rear bridges also.Including shotguns. I like peep sights the best for most shooting. They also come with flat bottoms also for bridges and receivers that are flat on top.
Another picture of the 585 HE one of our guys put in the MPI stock..
On straight sided cases like our 585 HE the die set has a mouth expander die to make it easy to insert bullets. The die flares the mouth, but I always felt that doing what is really a relative relatively sharp flare, and then the slight roll crimping the same area of the case into a groove on the bullet or slug, shortens case life.
So I just use expander plug out of the die, by hand, using just the bottom of of the expander plug and just push it in a little, wobble it around a small amount, bullet goes in ok, case mouths last longer, good for dozens of loads, with moderate hunting and target loads.Only takes a few seconds and less work that has to be done in the press ... Ed
Here is picture of a hard plastic molded shotgun case, holding a slug, without crimping, a company is experimenting with. This one with light slug supposed to do over 2000 fps.
Here is video by Corlanes Sporting, Dawson Creek, BC, CAN. Known as, Rocky Mtn Rifles, video on Youtube of them testing our 585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load..
Allan and Grant Swan in Australia are building 585HE for a guy, the second they built. First one killed the buff pictured earlier . AHR and Vestals will make folks here in US a 585 HE. Here is another view of a Lawton action big enough for 585HE..
Here is picture of Rossi SS with 585 barrel mono-blocked into it, chambered for our 585 BB 2.17" case, to do testing in a light rifle with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to put case in leverguns, autoloaders. We got plenty of cases Ed
The style of most break actions singles aren't the greatest, that we we used for 12ga FH, 10ga FH, other caliber barrels we mono-blocked in them like .585" bore for 585HE and 24ga FH.. One that is close that we have, is the Magtech.
Well the guys have found one that is super strong lockup and looks real nice. And has the good quality look. It comes 12ga light shot barrel, soon be monoblocked to rifled 24ga FH, the little brother of the 585HE.
We told company if they did them with NEF style, rifled, heavy slug barrel, for shotgun caliber only hunters, they couldn't make them fast enough.
Here is picture of 585HE, In an Enfield that Bret and Darrel in Minn set up with great camo finish, with nice brake job. It is in a Hogue, recoil reducing, rubber coated, Compstock.Great job they did.. Ed
Here is picture from the rear of the Enfield we mounted the short Weaver rail piece on. It is mounted in the sight pocket that the actions have; Can hold scope ring or a rear peep sight like UTG makes.. Ed
Here is a Midland break action a guy is doing in 24ga FH.
Here is old catalog picture of different stuff used in old days for shotgun loads. Some would be hairy in brass cases
Here is picture of a MN a guy is doing 585HE in.. It is singleshot. Redid bolt handle mounted it on the bolt further bac, so the port could be lengthened for our long case. Needs polishing and blueing, scope rail added.
Here is another picture of the PH 585HE with great looking stock. Nice looking wood. Ed
Our friend Brian from the far north went to Africa with his 24ga FH he did in a NEF break action and got 3 nice buffs with it. Good job.
Our 585HE, 700HE and the great 12ga FH are now in the new COTW book published in Oct, now out for sale,
We now have our target 375 HE cartridge, made by necking down our 585 HE. The others couldn't make enough 375s, so we started our own. Got a bunch guys doing it, most into the 2 mile shooting venues, We're making cases, testing, reamer prints at reamer guys, we are getting guys going. The 2 mile shoot last year really got the interest booming for 375 necked from our case,
Here's how, size and seat 375 HE, one simple die, a 1" die, no huge dies needed A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then pass on to the next guy, one reamer can make whole bunch of dies for folks.
I do primer work separate, not in the press. SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.
When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered, held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck... IE the sides and shoulder corner still supported tight.
So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length, below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,
Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff same thread, reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up,
After priming, loading in the powder charge, we carefully start(boat tail makes it easy) bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating bushing of some kind , that can be made from many items.
These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special dies. Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.
OVER 900 375HE cases piled behind presses getting done. About 600 on another bench nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.And we will do more.
All 375 info, prints, specs, pictures, load data, etc, is public domain, worldwide, for any target, hunting, etc, use..Ed
Here is the before and after of 375 HE cases necked, 2 on left, and then formed in hydro die... Ed
Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left we are experimenting with, going to see if we can make the ultimate 416 ELR case. Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, a long one pictured. Holds over 280 gr ball powder under bullet. The 3.6" case can hold about 250gr under bullet.. In picture, 1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 He, 4th 378 WEA.
416 HSM will get 400gr to 4100 plus without needing BMG action, 470 gr 3800 plus , it may be the ultimate target, singleshot 416.. Case will work in fat bolt actions, with heavy enough barrel to have good, milder, barrel harmonics and be under 50 lbs. A lot of the 2 mile type shoots are adopting 50lb limit.
Here is picture of the 416 HSM fireformed once, next to bmg case we make it from and as we improve wildcatting process next few weeks some specs may make small changes, now from base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..
Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HE He can also make you a resize die reamer from that info. We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, , Going to do lot more cases for these 2 sizes, PM or email. ph 989-644-5228..
Here are final specs for 416 HE. Length 3.32", belt diameter ,655", base dia .635" , length base to to shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.Ed
Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for 28ga and 410 ga and 32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases. They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with our 585 case in the action.Guys can get Magtech brass cases or have RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE, 410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..
Here is picture of our 416 HSM case sectioned next to original BMG case on the right sectioned, to show that we still have enough thickness in the sides to handle high pressure, in a case with 310 gr capacity..We are getting the wildcatting work set up so we can do at least hundred a month. We have lots of 585s, 375HEs, 416 HEs, 408 HEs..... And working toward getting 416 HSMs in big numbers.
Here's comparison of 416 target cases, 1st 416 HE, have whole bunch. Second is model of what I'd have made on medium machine, if I could, the 416 HE Long. It has capacity of 230gr.. Third is our 416 HSM which we are working on making by wildcatting bmg cases, And if had run long cases, make longer 375 HE necking down 416 ..
Bryan Litz just recently shot 3 shot group at 2 miles using Paul Phillips heavy barreled, target rifle built by Lethal Precision in 375 Lethal Mag(585HE necked down, very similiar to 375HE )... It grouped 17.5 inches tall by 22 inches wide.
Applied Ballistics shooter Mitch Fitzpatrick just hit 3 of 5 at 3520 yards, weekend 10-13th at Valdina Ranch , west of San Antonio. Also used the 375 LM case similar to our 375 HE Great shooting at the 2017 World's Longest Shot Challenge. Ed
The 12ga FH case now is in the new COTW book on last page in the wildcat section, I think page 324. They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that case....
The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,
has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,
on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..
Shooters talking more now; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected. Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case proportions, too fast of powders, and the debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below.. My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.
For big long cases our testing is showing that the 416 easier to get powders to work with, less problems .. Maybe building a target gun,don't have 375 barrel all ready, maybe go 416....
Got sent 5 thick sided sample cases, same OD base as 585/375.416 cases, same belt, just .180" longer, did a 416 HE, chambered extra barrel , cases stick over 50k. They have about .042" total taper, .021" per side, when I necked couple to 416. That is a lot of taper , twice the taper of my 416HE...hanging up at 50k..
I could maybe go to 65k with these if we made taper with ..012" - .016" more taper to each side, but that is no way to build target cases. I'd have to crunch down case shoulder diameter. And would look like 30-30.
And crazy part is, the case has enough brass material to thin up sides and stretch them way out to 4 or more inches,, They weigh 150 gr more than our 585/375/416,, but with real thick sides they actually hold less than our 416 HE with thin sides, that is .180" shorter...Our case does 65k ok without sticking..
And we can make super long 4" cases work if we had means to get them built, as we have 15 powders slower than HBMG.Here is pic of thin and thick sided cases, sectioned for comparison.Ed..
Here is a drawing depicting the layout of thick and thin sided cases, like my 585/375/416 HE thin sided ones and the thick one in picture.
And my 585 case is not perfect, as where it transitions from the heavier corner to the side it isn't gradual, so case separates there shortening case life. There are others made that way including brand X. The dotted line is what it should be............
Others have sent cases to section and look at, that are built thick sided and they stick also for the folks, If a longer case with about 5 sq in of side surface sticks and don't spring back, the coefficient of friction is about .01 then the pull needed to move it is 2500-3500 lbs..That is for big cases with normal amount of slant to the sides.
Here is picture of six nyati and gibbs size cases sectioned.. the5th one is present 585 HE and 6th is thick sided version. 1st 600 OK which essentially nyati basic case left straight, belt added
In the picture the nyati gma is one we built most of our first 585s on. Before we had factory run. Reworking made it in size that is my 585 HE, but that brass had the sides of perfect thickness, not too thick, but thin without sharp transition my new factory 585s had, they last forever as 585s......
Fourth one is an older nyati case I used to make about 10 of my 585s from,had thin sides, heavy corner and sharp transition from the corner, tested 20 years ago, and they would separate after 4-6 hot loads as 585s, my factory 585 with right powders, as a 585 will get 10 hot loads, and necked down to 416/375 4- 6 hot loads, right powders used, Moderate 577 equivalent, factory 585 at least 20 loads..Ed.
Guy sent thick sided 375 case, next size base diameter up from Nyati.He said, 'Yes I ran them in a ___________ rifle built by ____, the best I could get was 44000 psi, any more and they were stuck''
Big bore guys. other forums over the years related that trex/african case in 585 size, thick sided cases, stuck when they loaded them over 45k psi.
Another just sent us, thick sided 375, long case, same base OD as our 585 HE, 416 HE, 375 HE, and Mitch's 375 Lethal, and the thick ones stuck over 45k psi.
Now you can fill those cases up, with ultra slow enough powder so they won't stick, but powder is too slow for max speed. Might get a little more speed, with thick sides case, but case got to be 4- 4.5 inches long..
. Anyone needing a sectioned case of the ones I made the first of my 585s from, contact me, if they want to get a general idea of what case side thickness should be, in Gibbs size cases on up to about trex and 375 VM size case diameter.
Here is pic of our 585 based case next to brand X and thick ones, both have same sharp, thinner, corner, where transition from heavy angled corner, to the side, the carbide draw rod could easily be reshaped with diamond wheel, just by grinding off sharp transition corner. Then sides would be perfect.., .
Here is picture of 416 HE in a Choate target/varmint stock guy is doing, using long action BSA U9 action.Setting in stock ready to do bedding..Ed
Here is picture of thick 375 case sent to me, with thick sided trex case, and our HE case, The thick 375 case is .050" bigger OD base, but inside is no bigger than HE cases.. These thick sided 375s stuck for the guy using them, when loaded over 44,000 psi....
Got guys asking and doing it, to do 416 HSM case for BMG actions, so leaving rim same, as the original bmg rim, so will neck them, fire form to the longer shoulder, like the others. Base a little bigger, Shoulder same diameter, same 30 degree slant, neck will be same..
Inside of case still has close to same shape, volumne within 3 % as ones we slimmed down more. Some want to use bmg actions and can't wait for intermediate actions, or already have bmg action. And they are really getting interested in the complete line of 416 CEB bullets now being done clear up to 550 gr...
So there will be 3 versions, one for actions .750" bolt, one for .800-.850" bolt, And one for bigger bmg bolts. The ones for BMG called 416 HSM2 ..
Here is 416 HSM guy working in a Montana PH, in a heavy thumbhole target stock. Ed
About 416 cal bullets............The heaviest 550 gr for Extreme ELR probably be best 8 to 1 twist , in 416 caliber bullets,
and 500 gr 9 to 1, and 470gr 10 to one, Barrels I have 10 to 1.
Now a novel idea is to lighten rear of bullet with small shallow hole drilled in base, might do better long range.which would allow 10 to one barrel stabilize the heavier bullets for ELR.
Have hole maybe 2/3 size of tail end of boat tail...Some going to have to try it to see if it is accurate. Ed.
The heaviest 550 gr for Extreme ELR probably be best 8 to 1 twist , in 416 caliber bullet, and 520 gr 9.5 to 1, and 470gr 10 to one, Some barrels I picked up are 10 to 1.......
Now a novel idea is to lighten rear of bullet with small shallow hole drilled in base, might do better long range.which would allow 10 to one barrel stabilize the heavier 550 gr bullets for ELR. Making bullet nose heavier makes it more stable in flight, needing less spin, like our hollow base 585 cal minie bullets only need 48 to 1 twist, or less while out regular 585 bullets need about 24 to 1 to stabilise them..............
The winner of the King Of 2 Mile shoot last week was using 416 Barrett with a 1 to 10 twist, with a 500 gr CEB Lazer bullet, ...Robert Brantley, with Manners Stocks....
Paul Philips was third with a 416...
GOOD NEWS-- There is now an importer and seller of our 585 HE brass getting set up here, in US, hopefully will be in stock, few weeks........ http://bertrambrass.com .. .. Caleb Hallet..
Have got another intermediate size action besides the Montana PH our guys working on, to do speed testingwith. It is big long REM style action that can take our 416 HSM, ED
Guys are still having trouble with various cases with too thick of sides. The thick sided case have enough brass material to thin up sides and stretch them way out to 4 or more inches,,And they'd work with proper slow powders, we are working on a 458 HSM experiment, with case holding 400 gr ball powder under the bullet. ED
More about our 416 HSM from BMG brass, and our 416 HE & 460 HE from our 585 HE cases Got reamers for 375 HE, 416 HE and 416 HSM,....
460 HE & 460 HSM are all spec'd, got HE reamer soon have HSM reamer...Our HSMs have a Wea type radius on the shoulder..
The fellow that set up our 416 HE in an ELR rifle and got 1/4 min accuracy, They got some game out west over 1400 yds.. .Here is the gun they set up. Using a K&P 34" barrel on a BAT action.....Ed
And have got a 460 HSM figured out, and the impetus for that is some asking about one and the great line of 458 bullets CEB now has. It will hold more powder than the 416 HSM.....Ed..
The guys that did the super accurate 416 HE did another 416 HE that has an 8" longer 42 inch K&P barrel..
Used a Stiller action and same load with 475 gr bullet, as in first gun and and gained about 200 fps with good accuracy. 3065 fps. Tested 2 groups of 3 and less than 1/2 min moa.
And loads they used are not the highest speed loads the cartridge is capable of....Here is print with specs for the 416 HE reamer chamber ....Ed....
More about he guys that did the accurate 416 HE, they did a 416 HE that has an 8" longer 42 inch K&P barrel..
Used longer barrel and the same load with 475 gr bullet, as used in the first gun and and gained about 200 fps with good accuracy,. 3065 fps. Tested 2 groups of 3 and less than 1/2 min moa.
And loads they used are not the highest speed loads the cartridge is capable of....Here is picture.......Ed....
Here is print with chamber reamer specs for the 416 HSM chamber..There are 3 base sizes we have, depending on actions used. Got reamers for all 3.. Got cases for all of them.. Our cases are public domain, so that is why I post info and specs. Manson makes reamers I use,,, Ed. [Linked Image]
Here is reamer print with chamber reamer specs for the 460 HSM chamber .Couple guys getting set to do 38-40 inch heavy 458 target barrels...Ed.... [Linked Image]
With 40 inch barrel 416 HSM ,475 gr, get 3650, over 13,000 ft lbs muzzle energy. Got guys getting set to have 38-40 inch 458 barrels made for 460 HSM.Ed..
More info on this gun, we did it for testing 416 HSM with a rebated rim, to check in intermediate size actions, with the longer, stronger, bolt lugs, Ed..
Here is experimental action for 416 HSM in a heavy stock....We lengthened port a little, set bolt stop back , opened bolt face fit the 416 HSM rebated rim. Ed. [Linked Image] Here is comparison of Montana PH to Pierce action we modified to use for rebated rim 416 HSM testing..Ed. [Linked Image]