Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 168 TSX Fever: I've got it!

Hey Brad, at what range was that bull taken? I'm just curious about that expansion vs velocity. It looks B-U-T-Ful!

Wayne

Wayne, he was shot at fifty yards laying in his bed snoozing. The shot (only available) went through the liver, angled back through the completely stuffed gut sack and was found stuck in the hide forward the rear leg after I'd got him quartered. The fact he was laying down flattened out his belly and gave that much more elk to go through. Also, I've never seen a more full gut sack on any elk. Completely stuffed.

He stood at the shot totally bummed and I dropped him with a neck shot. The bullet center-punched the spine and exited.

Muzzle velocity 2,855.

I suspect a 168 TSX needs around 1900-2000 fps to open reliably for a useable mushroom but I will test it out "officially" in wet phone books this summer.

Here's another pic of the 168 from the bull on the right and a 168 from behind my 400 yard target on the left. It went into soft, loamy soil where I dug it out at around 420 yards... it weighs, surprise, 168 gr's:

loamy.....wth is that???

Must be a new gun looney term...grins

Mark D

Some played basketball in College, some went to class <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

loam (syn. loamy soil) 1. A generally fertile and well-drained soil, containing clay, sand, and a significant amount of decomposed organic matter.

No wonder he was lying down, he was having a food snooze. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Those recovered bullets look good. I can't wait. Hopefully will get drawn for that limited entry deer hunt and/or the Marble Mnt elk hunt. I'll be ready.

Class there were classes in college???

Oh yeah, b-ball 101, pizza eating 101 and suddsing 101.

Now I remember!

Mark D

Nice bull!! I don't think one can beat the TXS terminal performance and they are accurate as Match bullets acctualy the 180 TXS in my 300 Win shot slightly smaller groups than the 190 SMK

Barnes says the TSX needs 1800 fps to expand reliably, where the MRX and the X bullet both need 1600 fps.

Tell me this:

The main reason to use a TSX is if you MV is in excess of 3000 fps. How far away would your target have to be that you'd have to worry about 1600 fps?

Have we lost sight of reality here?

Jordan, Barnes says a lot of things I don't believe. I prefer to find out for myself. Look at the bullet on the left... for me, that's the smallest mushroom I'd want and the least amount of expansion. It hit the dirt right at 2,050 fps (+-). As I said however, I'll test it out to see for myself.

Who said anything about 1600 fps?

Form a 30/06 shooting 165TSX bullets 2900fps you will still have 2125fps at 500 yards

At 700 yards it will still be at 1901fps
At 900 yards it will still be at 1652fps

I think it's a safe bet that the TSX will function as far as your likley to shoot at big game. That is of course if this is not going along with the typical Barnes "hype".

After all they print different BC's as they go and in different publications as well. Truth is I have recoverd a number of several different early versions of the X that could have been reloaded and shot again. They had impact velocities near muzzle velocity in some cases with wildebeast and zebra for instance being shot at only 50-75 yards. Some were just bent over and not opened.

These were suppose to open down to 1600fps and did not open at or above 3000! Combine this reality with the huge number of people who say ........" they penetrate so great I have never recovered one" It's always left me feeling that many of those did not open either. The few that were recovered looked spectacular and acted as "bait" feeding the assumption that all those that exited were like that also. That's not true however. Many of those exits were very likely non-opened bullets that just zipped through.

I have enough feedback right now from my co-workers here in the safari industry that I have 100% trust and faith in that these TSX bullets are working. Nobody has seen a failure or had any reason to doubt this latest prototype. It's the reason I loaded them up to shoot for myself.

JJ, according to my Barnes manual charts, a 165 XFB started at 2,850 is only going 2,070-ish at 400 yards. Since the trajectory of the 168 TSX exactly matches the regular 165 X flat base charts at my range, I've got to believe Barnes' velocity figure is true. The 168 TSX's BC is vastly inflated and has recently been dropped to the low 400's.

I will shoot it through the chrono at 400 this summer to see for sure but I expect no suprises.

I ran the numbers through my Ohler program using a BC of .380 right from the Barnes Website. Last weekend I shot my rifle with this bullet at 2900 or a tiny bit more 15 feet from the muzzle and then again at 50 yards with the muzzle velocity showing 2825fps, (only did it one time). I think from that we could prove out the BC through calculation. Knowing the velocity loss between two points. Actually I think my ohler program has that built in?

I originally did this to see how close the Ohler program was and it looked dead nuts to me, so maybe the .380BC is correct?
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Ok just went and programmed in the numbers and using the 2900fps MV then checking again at 50 yards the calculated speed should be 2809fps.

My velocity at the muzzle would have been a bit over 2900 because I was at just over 2900fps at 15 feet.

At 50 yards it was an exact 2825fps. Just slightly higher then calculated due to the slightly higher starting speed. Knowing this I would guess they have actually given the correct BC on the website now???

JJ-twer it me I'd want to run the info over the clock when it was set out at 300 to 400 yds as opposed to 50 yds but that is just me.

I tend to believe this would make for a better truer test.

Just my beliefs. So, if you get bored try this. Same day same load run it at 15' and the at 400 yds and then do your calcs. I'll buy you a brew when you're done and have reported, but you gotta get here 1st...grins

Mark D

Some have opined the grooves in the TSX add quite a bit of drag that becomes noticeable out at range. Heck, I don't know! What I do know is the 168 TSX pulled from the soft soil at 420 yards shows the minimum expansion I'd want on game.

This summer I do plan to put my chrono out at 400 yards and see what the actual speed is (vs guessing) and also shoot into wet phonebooks at 400-500 yards.

Nuttin like actually doing something to see what's what!

Posting same thought's at the same time there Dober... no big suprise!

I would tend to agree with the greater resolution of additional distance. However in workiing with the guys at Hornady when I was doing some "things" for them in the past they only used a short distance(50 or 100 meters) to do the calculations and claimed it was gonna work out to the same end result anyway. Plus it made frequent easy testing possible without needing 400 yards influenced by wind and weather issues. It's complicated and risky to put in a loading book a "fact" when any outside influence has a different effect from day to day. It's why these things are all calculated under a perfect set of conditions.

Had I not been presented with their opinion and technique on this early in my career I would not have bothered with the 50 yard measure to check the BC of the TSX.

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest they know their stuff and the resluts you get will be the same. Or close enough, with the outside forces and variables involved which we have little no control over.

Your marginally mushroomed bullet from the soil might meet the Barnes definition of "will still expand down to 1800fps" nobody knows what their definition of "expands" is set at, or is claiming. Heck for all we know if the tip deforms it's "expanded" or maybe if it's greater then bore diameter it's expanded?

Certainly not my definition, but I'm not in the marketing business for them either!

Brad,

Thanks for the elk picture. What a beaut!

Brad,

I'd say you're set on critters between the muzzle and 400 yards. I personally feel that covers alot of ground. Darn nice bull, can't get tired of seeing that guy.