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Why are most bowhunters so fickle and lack confidence?
I've been shoot the same Hoyt Magna-Ted for over 15yrs. It stills shoots a 480+ grain arrow at 275fps, is more accurate than needed, draws smoothly with it's 2 cams, and kills deer just as dead today as it did in 1998.
Do gun hunters constantly sell a perfectly good 30-06 Ruger for a new 30-06 ruger? The same model 70 sold in the 50s will kill deer just as dead in the 21st century.
Why do bow "nuts" think differently? As long as I can continue to pull and aim my Magna-Tec, it will be my hunting bow.
Unless people forgot, bowhunting is meant to be a SHORT RANGE pursuit. It doesn't take much to kill a deer under 40yds. If you need to shoot further than that, learn how to hunt. ..... And you spend some time in my neck of the woods and shooting an elk at over 40 certainly is well within the bounds of good hunting. This is where individual experience isn't really a telling indicator of what is acceptable for everyone else. I wonder how Fred Bear and others managed to kill those elk with a recurve, past and present? The Indians also managed to kill more than a few elk with their "long" bows. Like I've said numerous times, I think too many of today's "hunters" are lazy and looking for technology to make up for their lack of woodmanship/hunting skill. Just like a lot of rifle "hunters" who insist you need to shoot 500-1000yds to kill western game, any bow "hunter" that says you need to shoot over 50yds at unwounded game, needs to practice hunting more. sorry if that offends you, but if more people thought like that, hunting would be held in a better light by the non-hunting public. Not offended, it's just a significant overstatement. I'm not advocating long range anything and I question your experience. If you shoot a compound or a rifle, then don't compare yourself to Bear or Indians. And if modern equipment was made available to them, I doubt they would be so finicky. Maybe you need to get inside 40, but thankfully I don't, specifically with elk. 55 is about where I stop, but that's not a big stretch. And the non-hunting public is not in the least concerned whether I shoot elk 15 yards beyond what you are comfortable. It takes good woodcraft, knowledge, and ability to close the distance to bow range and I don't apologize one bit for my ability to reach out further with better equipment. Heck, I just hunted. In Alabama and shot a deer opening archery from a tree stand at 37 yards. I'm not sure what great skill I would have used to close that distance from a tree stand. The skill I used was just holding still an extra few minutes. The skill is putting the stand in the correct spot, knowing where and when the deer travel, using camo and the wind to your advantage, moving when the animal is unaware, and calming nerves and muscles to make a clean accurate shot.
I don't drink or Smoke. I spend my money on gunpowder and gasoline.
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
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This thread isnt about hunting styles or ethics. It is about what a company chose to introduce this year and how their "new" products measure up to what other companies have introduced for the 2014 model year.
Crossed Arrows Archery LLC Authorized Obsession Bows Dealer Custom Strings/Tuning www.crossedarrowsarcheryllc.comBlack Eagle Arrows Pro Staff, Montana Black Gold Shooting Staff, Dead Center Archery Products Shooting Staff
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I wonder how Fred Bear and others managed to kill those elk with a recurve, past and present? The Indians also managed to kill more than a few elk with their "long" bows. Like I've said numerous times, I think too many of today's "hunters" are lazy and looking for technology to make up for their lack of woodmanship/hunting skill.
Just like a lot of rifle "hunters" who insist you need to shoot 500-1000yds to kill western game, any bow "hunter" that says you need to shoot over 50yds at unwounded game, needs to practice hunting more.
sorry if that offends you, but if more people thought like that, hunting would be held in a better light by the non-hunting public.
This really has little relevance to bow hunting. What Fred Bear and Indians did with a bow is not what we can experience in today's hunting world. Elk were plains animals an numbered in the millions. Indians were opportunists and took advantage of herds and lack of fear by elk that we are experiencing today. I would put the best hunters of today against George Drouillard and his contemporaries as to their hunting skills. Grit and determination maybe another story but as far as hunting, today is much harder than it was 200 years ago. If you gave any 18th century Indian, or Daniel Boone the option of a modern firearm, my guess is they would have taken it so fast it would blister your hand...
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/G9RDVKXr/DSCN4329.jpg)
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 26,389 |
This thread isnt about hunting styles or ethics. It is about what a company chose to introduce this year and how their "new" products measure up to what other companies have introduced for the 2014 model year. In other words, a garden variety Mathews bashing thread. 
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
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No bashing. Just disappointment. Never in this thread did i say their bows were junk. Just seeing a company that has let relying on their name(one that was built on innovation) cost them their top spot because they have become complacent. Thats all
Crossed Arrows Archery LLC Authorized Obsession Bows Dealer Custom Strings/Tuning www.crossedarrowsarcheryllc.comBlack Eagle Arrows Pro Staff, Montana Black Gold Shooting Staff, Dead Center Archery Products Shooting Staff
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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No bashing. Just disappointment. Never in this thread did i say their bows were junk. Just seeing a company that has let relying on their name(one that was built on innovation) cost them their top spot because they have become complacent. Thats all and I questioned why anyone would go and buy a new bow every other year when the deer are not any tougher than they were years before. If a bow worked in 2005, it will work in 2013. People like to make excuses for buying something "new", and then bitch that the "new" product isn't all that better than the other.
I don't drink or Smoke. I spend my money on gunpowder and gasoline.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Been killing deer left and right since my last new bow in 91... that bow still does everything I need it to do.
Kind of like my rifles. Get a good one, and tends to be somewhat if not full on custom, I don't need the newest bling.
But there are many a fool out there that will part with their jack every last year, just to brag. Same ones that gut shoot, miss, loose deer like the rest of the crowd. Maybe more so.
The ones locally that brag, I ain't seen nothing evidence wise from their shooting or their harvests that would make me even think about a new one.
I bet I didn't pay more than 300 for the PSE in 91.... I bet a mattews is 1000 bucks these days give or take?
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 26,389 |
My main bows are over 50 years old. Bear Kodiaks. My brother however, buys a new Mathews every year. To say they haven't progressed or innovated in the last decade is pure poppycock and balderdash. They're beautifully made and shoot as good as any bow out there.
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Been killing deer left and right since my last new bow in 91... that bow still does everything I need it to do.
Kind of like my rifles. Get a good one, and tends to be somewhat if not full on custom, I don't need the newest bling.
But there are many a fool out there that will part with their jack every last year, just to brag. Same ones that gut shoot, miss, loose deer like the rest of the crowd. Maybe more so.
The ones locally that brag, I ain't seen nothing evidence wise from their shooting or their harvests that would make me even think about a new one.
I bet I didn't pay more than 300 for the PSE in 91.... I bet a mattews is 1000 bucks these days give or take? This sounds a lot like bragging. I'm always amazed at those who brag about not bragging while they denigrate others. Who cares if people buy new, unnecessary junk. As someone who guides I've got way more stories of guys with old equipment they haul around and shoot just as poorly as some joker with the latest Mathews. Somehow it's more admirable to shoot something old that's inaccurate vs shooting something new just as badly. I'm sure none of you shoot anything as exotic as a expandable because Fred Bear didn't have them. The only thing you should critique is proficiency, not the relevant money spent on gear. Old gear can be very accurate, new gear is more forgiving and easier to shoot. It's still the archer.
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Campfire Regular
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,727
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,727 |
Been killing deer left and right since my last new bow in 91... that bow still does everything I need it to do.
Kind of like my rifles. Get a good one, and tends to be somewhat if not full on custom, I don't need the newest bling.
But there are many a fool out there that will part with their jack every last year, just to brag. Same ones that gut shoot, miss, loose deer like the rest of the crowd. Maybe more so.
The ones locally that brag, I ain't seen nothing evidence wise from their shooting or their harvests that would make me even think about a new one.
I bet I didn't pay more than 300 for the PSE in 91.... I bet a mattews is 1000 bucks these days give or take? This sounds a lot like bragging. I'm always amazed at those who brag about not bragging while they denigrate others. Who cares if people buy new, unnecessary junk. As someone who guides I've got way more stories of guys with old equipment they haul around and shoot just as poorly as some joker with the latest Mathews. Somehow it's more admirable to shoot something old that's inaccurate vs shooting something new just as badly. I'm sure none of you shoot anything as exotic as a expandable because Fred Bear didn't have them. The only thing you should critique is proficiency, not the relevant money spent on gear. Old gear can be very accurate, new gear is more forgiving and easier to shoot. It's still the archer. the O.P. started the thread complaining that Mathews [like most other makers] keep introducing "new " bows, jacking the prices up, touting the "improvements" and the "new" bows aren't much better than the "old" bow from a year or two ago. I and others have stated that why buy a new bow and then bitch about it. Shoot the "old" bow you liked and keep shooting it while all the fools spend money on needless "new" bows. Chances are, the old bow you have been shooting is more than capable of doing the job, if the archer is.
I don't drink or Smoke. I spend my money on gunpowder and gasoline.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 380
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 380 |
Been killing deer left and right since my last new bow in 91... that bow still does everything I need it to do.
Kind of like my rifles. Get a good one, and tends to be somewhat if not full on custom, I don't need the newest bling.
But there are many a fool out there that will part with their jack every last year, just to brag. Same ones that gut shoot, miss, loose deer like the rest of the crowd. Maybe more so.
The ones locally that brag, I ain't seen nothing evidence wise from their shooting or their harvests that would make me even think about a new one.
I bet I didn't pay more than 300 for the PSE in 91.... I bet a mattews is 1000 bucks these days give or take? This sounds a lot like bragging. I'm always amazed at those who brag about not bragging while they denigrate others. Who cares if people buy new, unnecessary junk. As someone who guides I've got way more stories of guys with old equipment they haul around and shoot just as poorly as some joker with the latest Mathews. Somehow it's more admirable to shoot something old that's inaccurate vs shooting something new just as badly. I'm sure none of you shoot anything as exotic as a expandable because Fred Bear didn't have them. The only thing you should critique is proficiency, not the relevant money spent on gear. Old gear can be very accurate, new gear is more forgiving and easier to shoot. It's still the archer. the O.P. started the thread complaining that Mathews [like most other makers] keep introducing "new " bows, jacking the prices up, touting the "improvements" and the "new" bows aren't much better than the "old" bow from a year or two ago. I and others have stated that why buy a new bow and then bitch about it. Shoot the "old" bow you liked and keep shooting it while all the fools spend money on needless "new" bows. Chances are, the old bow you have been shooting is more than capable of doing the job, if the archer is. Listen, I get what you are saying, I just get a little inside out when those who are buying new equipment are deemed as irresponsible fools (my interpretation, not your words). It keeps the industry going, creates more revenue which then drives innovation and predicates the next big advance. I'm pretty sure the guy who is laminating limbs for Hoyt is sure as heck thankful bow hunters redefine looney and make rifle hunters seem sane. No one, and I repeat no one, is as obsessed as bow hunters. Well, maybe guys who are climbing 8,000 meter mountains, but I'm not sure.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,520 |
No one, and I repeat no one, is as obsessed as bow hunters.
You haven't been around skiers and skis. Talk about worthless before you walk out the door...
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Campfire Member
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No one, and I repeat no one, is as obsessed as bow hunters.
You haven't been around skiers and skis. Talk about worthless before you walk out the door... Good point.
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,727
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,727 |
Been killing deer left and right since my last new bow in 91... that bow still does everything I need it to do.
Kind of like my rifles. Get a good one, and tends to be somewhat if not full on custom, I don't need the newest bling.
But there are many a fool out there that will part with their jack every last year, just to brag. Same ones that gut shoot, miss, loose deer like the rest of the crowd. Maybe more so.
The ones locally that brag, I ain't seen nothing evidence wise from their shooting or their harvests that would make me even think about a new one.
I bet I didn't pay more than 300 for the PSE in 91.... I bet a mattews is 1000 bucks these days give or take? This sounds a lot like bragging. I'm always amazed at those who brag about not bragging while they denigrate others. Who cares if people buy new, unnecessary junk. As someone who guides I've got way more stories of guys with old equipment they haul around and shoot just as poorly as some joker with the latest Mathews. Somehow it's more admirable to shoot something old that's inaccurate vs shooting something new just as badly. I'm sure none of you shoot anything as exotic as a expandable because Fred Bear didn't have them. The only thing you should critique is proficiency, not the relevant money spent on gear. Old gear can be very accurate, new gear is more forgiving and easier to shoot. It's still the archer. the O.P. started the thread complaining that Mathews [like most other makers] keep introducing "new " bows, jacking the prices up, touting the "improvements" and the "new" bows aren't much better than the "old" bow from a year or two ago. I and others have stated that why buy a new bow and then bitch about it. Shoot the "old" bow you liked and keep shooting it while all the fools spend money on needless "new" bows. Chances are, the old bow you have been shooting is more than capable of doing the job, if the archer is. Listen, I get what you are saying, I just get a little inside out when those who are buying new equipment are deemed as irresponsible fools (my interpretation, not your words). It keeps the industry going, creates more revenue which then drives innovation and predicates the next big advance. I'm pretty sure the guy who is laminating limbs for Hoyt is sure as heck thankful bow hunters redefine looney and make rifle hunters seem sane. No one, and I repeat no one, is as obsessed as bow hunters. Well, maybe guys who are climbing 8,000 meter mountains, but I'm not sure. LOL.  I know quite a few guys like that, and they're like crack adicts looking for the next fix. they need the latest and greatest as soon as it comes out and can't wait to spend their last dime on it. 
Last edited by dmsbandit; 11/12/13.
I don't drink or Smoke. I spend my money on gunpowder and gasoline.
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Posts: 8,294
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Still hunting with my Mathews Featherlight  circa 1921.. First single cam IIRC... It rocks on year after year... W
"I would build one again, if it were not for my 350RM (grin)."
MtnHtr
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Posts: 16,971
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,971 |
Once again the ol "lipstick on a pig" routine. Creed XS....shorter ATA, 321fps IBO.
Chill R....6" BH 340IBO
Nothing new. So where is your solution that improves on their design - or are we just trying to feel better about ourselves by saying other people suck. Really dude
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
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The solution is....listen to what the people want. Offer a little variety. Taking last years bow and making it super short is not offering anything new. But yet its the same thing as last year and dealers get stuck having to justify a higher price just because they shortened the ATA and put some new stickers on it. Know a few shops that have gotten tired of this. They keep the Mathews bows for the fanboys but have aquired and are pushing other brands now. Other companies are stepping up their game. Sooner or later, Mathews will be forced to take notice
Crossed Arrows Archery LLC Authorized Obsession Bows Dealer Custom Strings/Tuning www.crossedarrowsarcheryllc.comBlack Eagle Arrows Pro Staff, Montana Black Gold Shooting Staff, Dead Center Archery Products Shooting Staff
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,971
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,971 |
Mathews and Hoyt have done a good deal of trail blazing, the other guys following there lead isn't rocket science it's them being fast followers, or as fast as they can.
Customers want everything from free, and the laws of physics and the economy don't agree so I wouldn't be too sure that all other prices aren't going up just like Mathews bows are.
It really sounds like un-real expectations to me, Matthews makes good bows, and they do something really paradigm breaking every 5 years or so. If new innovation was that easy the cycle would be shorter. In the end the intervals get longer and longer - can't break the law of pyshics with the existing materials too often.
Mathews bows aren't magic but they are some of the best ones, prices could definitely be better, I agree with you there - and they may have to lower prices if the others catch up as you noted.
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
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Never downed the quality of Mathews. I run more Mathews through my shop than any other brand. Because they are the bulk of whats here. They shoot well and are easy tuners(with the exception of one Monster that was a PITA). Mathews has a huge bullseye on their back. And the other companies are taking aim. No new target bow from them, while only a minute share of their sales, will hurt. Pros and everyday shooters alike are jumping ship. And while it shouldnt matter what bow XYZ shooter uses, people are taking notice. Other companies have taken what Mathews started and have worked to improve it. And their sales numbers reflect that. Research Martin Archery. Like Mathews, they were once the top dog. Customers wants went by the wayside. And now they are trying to rise up out of the ashes. It wont happen over night, but Mathews is starting down that same path.
Crossed Arrows Archery LLC Authorized Obsession Bows Dealer Custom Strings/Tuning www.crossedarrowsarcheryllc.comBlack Eagle Arrows Pro Staff, Montana Black Gold Shooting Staff, Dead Center Archery Products Shooting Staff
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