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tanner, remember...it is all about the money. Who cares if they are shooting bucks off the winter range after finding them with a helicopter. It raises money right?

LOL

Landowner tags and governor tags are what has ruined the west. Shutting down the deer season for 1-2 years would do a lot more for the deer herds than $100k, but then again, the state is not willing to lose money. And never mind the ranchers that get damage payments yet aren't required to let the public hunt their land in return.

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Here is the elk taken on this years Governor's tag here in Wyoming.

The bull was killed on public ground during an open season. 2 1/2 mile packout in backpacks.

Grosses 395 and should net over 380.

7mm 180gr Berger VLD if anyone is interested. grin

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Heck of a bull, but for that kind of cash you'd think he'd have found something well over 400".

Do they grow'em that big up there?

How much did the poor guy spend? wink


Originally Posted by Bristoe
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Originally Posted by dogcatcher223
tanner, remember...it is all about the money. Who cares if they are shooting bucks off the winter range after finding them with a helicopter. It raises money right?

LOL

Landowner tags and governor tags are what has ruined the west. Shutting down the deer season for 1-2 years would do a lot more for the deer herds than $100k, but then again, the state is not willing to lose money. And never mind the ranchers that get damage payments yet aren't required to let the public hunt their land in return.



Sorry, have to completely disagree.

The Governor's tag is for ONE animal of each species and generates more cash for habitat improvement than probably 1000 tags sold for each specie.

How can letting a rich dude kill one elk ruin hunting in the west?

Ridiculous and extremely short-sighted




Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Dogcatcher's argument holds a few valid points, based on what I've learned.

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Originally Posted by rcamuglia
Originally Posted by dogcatcher223
tanner, remember...it is all about the money. Who cares if they are shooting bucks off the winter range after finding them with a helicopter. It raises money right?

LOL

Landowner tags and governor tags are what has ruined the west. Shutting down the deer season for 1-2 years would do a lot more for the deer herds than $100k, but then again, the state is not willing to lose money. And never mind the ranchers that get damage payments yet aren't required to let the public hunt their land in return.



Sorry, have to completely disagree.

The Governor's tag is for ONE animal of each species and generates more cash for habitat improvement smile than probably 1000 tags sold for each specie.

How can letting a rich dude kill one elk ruin hunting in the west?

Ridiculous and extremely short-sighted




Are we going to have to have this argument again? grin

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If you can even muster an intelligent one, of course.

LOL


Originally Posted by Bristoe
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When you get your numbers straight on how many tags are auctioned get back to me.

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I wonder how the mule deer managed before the days of some rich guy shooting them off the winter range?

Ditch the governor's tag, and redo all the season dates, including cancelling the 4th buck season.

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Originally Posted by SLM
When you get your numbers straight on how many tags are auctioned get back to me.



You might find this as interesting as I did.


Quote
Wyoming Game and Fish Commission Examines Impacts of Complimentary Licenses; Votes to Make No Changes

10/1/2012

CHEYENNE - At its September meeting in Casper, the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission voted to make no changes to the way commissioner complimentary licenses are allocated.

Each of Wyoming�s seven Game and Fish Commissioners can allocate up to eight complimentary hunting licenses annually for elk, deer, or antelope. The licenses must be donated to a nonprofit charitable organization, which must then auction or raffle the license to raise funds. The successful bidder or raffle winner designates the species, hunt area, and license type. Most holders of complimentary licenses choose to hunt in areas and during seasons where there is a high likelihood of harvesting a trophy animal.

To ensure that commissioner licenses are not having a biological impact on species in certain highly desirable hunt areas, the commission requested that Wyoming Game and Fish Department personnel conduct a study on allocation of these licenses and their potential impacts. The commission also discussed the issue of fairness concerning the allocation of these licenses in hard-to-draw limited quota areas.

The study, which looked at 10 years of data in high-demand hunt areas, was presented to the commission in January2012. The study found that, while there is potential for negative perceptions about fairness, there are no biological impacts in areas where commissioner complimentary licenses were most often allocated.

�Because many of these licenses go to certain high-demand areas every year, we wanted to make sure there were no adverse impacts to the species in those areas,� says WGF Commission President Aaron Clark. �In addition, we received strong support from the public and from our conservation partners to make no changes to the current system. As a whole, the commission feels good about how we are allocating these licenses and the funds they help raise for wildlife conservation.�

(Contact: Eric Keszler (307) 777-4594)




I would bet it's similar in all western states. Yes, not just one license is donated, but the cash coming in to fund habitat projects would not be there unless this is done.




This is from Colorado

Quote
8/22/2008
Division of Wildlife

Wildlife Projects Funded by Special Licenses




The Colorado Division of Wildlife (DOW) and eight non-profit wildlife conservation organizations have selected more than $480,000 in wildlife projects that will be funded this year with proceeds from the sale of special auction and raffle hunting licenses in Colorado.

Each year several special hunting licenses are auctioned or raffled by non-profit wildlife conservation organizations to raise funds for wildlife projects. These special hunting licenses provide hunters with the opportunity to hunt in many areas around the state. Because these tags offer incredible hunting opportunities, the auctions and raffles generate considerable interest and income for wildlife projects.

Raffles are held annually by Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society, Safari Club International, Ducks Unlimited, Mule Deer Foundation, Colorado Bowhunters Association, and the Colorado Wildlife Federation. Licenses are auctioned annually by Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society, Mule Deer Foundation, Colorado Mule Deer Association, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and the Colorado Bowhunters Association.

Some of the auction and raffle projects funded this year include:

Rampart Range Bighorn Sheep Lungworm Treatment Study

The Rampart Range Bighorn Sheep Lungworm Treatment Study received $15,818 this year. This is the second year of funding for a long-term study on the effectiveness of two types of treatment for lungworm infection, a respiratory disease in bighorn sheep. Radio-collared ewes are split into three groups. One group gets an oral treatment. The second group gets injections. The third group, the control group, receives no treatment. Stool samples are collected from ewes to look for the presence of lungworm larvae to determine which (if any) treatment is most effective at reducing larval lungworm concentrations. Ewes are then monitored after they give birth to determine whether treating ewes during pregnancy improves lamb survival.

Pikes Peak Bighorn Sheep Population Estimation and Demographics

The Pikes Peak Bighorn Sheep Population Estimate and Demographics project received $46,468 in funding. This is the second year of funding for a study aimed at estimating population size and monitoring movements and survival of rocky mountain bighorn on Pikes Peak. In 2007, biologists estimated that the bighorn sheep population on Pikes Peak and surrounding areas was about 180 animals. Preliminary results indicate that individuals within the Pikes Peak sheep herd follow the same seasonal dispersal and regrouping patterns year after year. Members split into groups on a somewhat predictable schedule with the same individuals forming sub-herds each year.

Black Ridge Desert Bighorn Sheep Population Assessment

The Black Ridge Desert Bighorn Sheep Population Assessment and Monitoring project is a multi-year project intended to learn about the Black Ridge desert bighorn sheep herd near the Colorado National Monument. The assessment received $30,000 in funding. The project looks at factors including survival, lamb production and recruitment, causes of mortality, range and interaction with other herds. Funding will be used for capture of animals for radio-collaring, data analysis, and a technician to perform field work. The project has additional funding from the DOW, Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society and the Foundation for North American Wild Sheep.

Poudre River Bighorn Sheep Population Estimate & Lamb Recruitment Study

The Poudre River Bighorn Sheep Population Estimate and Recruitment Study received $17,000. The project is in the fourth year of evaluating lamb recruitment, lamb survival and herd population size and performance. Beginning in January 2005, DOW biologists radio-collared a sample of ewes in the upper and lower Poudre Canyon. Data from these radio collared animals allow wildlife managers to estimate annual adult ewe survival, document seasonal movements, locate lambing grounds and monitor the presence and survival of lambs. Data gathered to date suggest a declining population canyon-wide, with pneumonia implicated in all recovered lamb mortalities from the lower canyon. In 2008, a nutritional, mineral and antibiotic treatment was applied to a small group of ewes in the lower canyon in hopes of improving lamb recruitment.

Georgetown Bighorn Sheep Range, Population and Survival Estimation

In 2006, DOW initiated a study utilizing radio collars to estimate population and survival for adult ewes and rams in the Georgetown bighorn sheep herd. These population parameters have been used, along with data from annual coordinated counts, to produce a population model similar to those used to guide the management of deer and elk in Colorado. This population model has proven useful in the management of the Georgetown herd and allows DOW to continue to estimate the size of the bighorn population beyond this study. The Georgetown study has also provided information on sheep movement, range, distribution, habitat use, and lamb dynamics. The focus of the study will shift in 2009 towards collecting more detailed and precise spatial information which is needed to mitigate the effects of human development and recreation in the area. The Georgetown Bighorn Sheep project received $46,630 in auction and raffle funding.

Flattops Moose Transplant Project

The goal of the Flattops Moose Transplant Project is to establish a self-sustaining, breeding moose population on the Flattops east of Meeker. Plans are being made to transplant moose from northern Utah to the Flattops. The initial project goals will include documenting seasonal movements, seasonal use areas and survival rates of translocated animals and documenting production and recruitment rates of female moose translocated to the Flattops. The project received $105,000 in auction and raffle funding and will result in an additional moose population in western Colorado.

Radium Habitat Improvement Project

The Radium Habitat Improvement Project received $10,000 this year. The primary objective of the project is to improve winter range for a variety of species along the Colorado River corridor in the Radium basin. Work includes reduction of pinyon-juniper encroachment, increasing of plant species diversity and vigor, increasing carrying capacity of habitat for deer and elk and work to recharge old water springs in the area.

The Radium Habitat Project partners have been working on habitat improvements in the area since 2001, conducting more than $100,000 in habitat improvements so far. This year's auction and raffle funds will be used in conjunction with funds from the Colorado Mule Deer Foundation and the Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society, and labor from the Colorado Youth Corp and Mule Deer Foundation. A prescribed fire and habitat manipulation plan is in place through 2017 in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management, US Forest Service, DOW, Colorado State Forest Service and area land owners.

Basalt Lucksinger Fields Project


The Lucksinger Fields Project on the Basalt State Wildlife Area is designed to improve winter range habitat for deer and elk in the Roaring Fork Valley. These former hay meadows are being replanted and rehabilitated to provide beneficial habitat for big game and other species. The Roaring Fork Valley has rapidly developed over the past two decades and enhancing these fields will provided needed winter range. The project was provided $41,060 from auction and raffle funds.

HD Mountains Mule Deer Responses to Energy Development

Energy development in Southwest Colorado is increasing on mule deer winter range. A long-term research project in the HD Mountains has two primary objectives: to monitor mule deer behavioral and population responses to energy development; and to design and evaluate best management practices and mitigations in response to natural gas development. The HD project received $27,916 in auction and raffle funding and is a cooperative effort between the DOW, the Southern Ute Indian Tribe, the US Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management. Approximately 140 mule deer have been captured and fitted with radio telemetry collars since 2004. VHF and GPS radio-telemetry collars allow biologists to evaluate deer movement and survival in areas prior to, during, and after energy development. Body condition of captured animals is measured in development and control areas.

Age Distribution of Hunter-Harvested Mule Deer Bucks

Because mule deer management strategies vary throughout Colorado, a study is examining management strategies and how they affect the age distribution of harvested bucks in three specific areas: the Gunnison Basin, the Uncompahgre Plateau, and the southern San Luis Valley. The study started in 2007 with a sampling of hunters in Game Management Units 54, 61, 62, 80 and 81. Hunters received letters requesting that they send in a tooth from harvested bucks. The teeth were examined at a laboratory in Montana to determine exact animal ages. The study will continue through the 2009 hunting seasons. The Age Distribution study received $13,000 in auction and raffle funding. Biologists are interested in evaluating whether there is an optimum buck-to-doe ratio which can maximize both hunt quality and hunter opportunity.

Light Hill Habitat Improvement Project

The Light Hill project will treat 537 acres of over-mature mountain shrub and pinyon-juniper on Light Hill in the Aspen area. The project, which received $25,000 in auction and raffle funding this year, is occurring on public land managed by the BLM. The thick and aged plants are difficult for wildlife to utilize and provide less forage for wintering big game animals.
With increasing development in the Roaring Fork Valley, big game winter range is extremely limited. Increasing the production and carrying capacity of existing winter range is the best alternative to provide for dwindling big game winter range. Providing quality winter range for deer and elk not only feeds the animals but helps keep them off nearby roads and private lands where they can cause crop and fence damage.

Organizations that auction or raffle licenses help rank and select projects funded. The organizations provide a majority of the auction or raffle proceeds to fund the wildlife projects. Some funds may be used by the wildlife conservation organizations to pay auction and raffle administrative costs and also to fund wildlife projects of the non-profit organization's choosing.





Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Here's one from Californistan:


Quote

Hunters and Wildlife Both Win With Big Game Fund-Raising


cdfgnews.wordpress.com/tag/fund-raising-tags



Fish and Game Code, section 4334 requires the proceeds from the sale of these tags to be returned to CDFW to fund programs that benefit bighorn sheep, deer, elk and pronghorn antelope. In last year�s auctions, tags for hunting two bighorn sheep, one pronghorn antelope, two elk and eight deer raised more than $385,000 for the research and management of these wildlife species.



13 tags raised almost 400,000 dollars



Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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interestingly Antelope Island (a state park, not under DWS control) auctioned off 2 deer and 2 sheep tags last year and 2 deer and 1 sheep tag this year, netting almost $600,000 for the island ($380,000 of it this year).

they're gonna hit $1M with less than 10 tags.

also interesting, the same guy bought a deer tag in both years -- he "only" had to pay $100,000 last year but had to pay $210,000-ish this year)



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The way it was explained to me by a very credible and helpful source was that because, in the case of Colorado anyways, the DNR is operating at a deficit, and is being forced to make budget cuts. The funds raised by Auction/Raffle/Governor's licenses are therefore the only way that conservation and research projects get funded.

This was explained to me after I asked the question, "Couldn't Colorado raise resident hunting license prices slightly, and do away with the Gov' tags?" The idea would work if not for the budget deficit, but it is what it is. Until the deficit is dealt away, there aren't many other options to fund needed projects.

That being said, I think that Governor's tag holders should be subject to the same season dates as hunters with regular tags, and the armies of spotters and rumors of helicopter flyovers are despicable. If I needed 12 people and a Huey to help me find a big buck in Colorado, I'd probably quit right then and there.

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Originally Posted by dogcatcher223
I wonder how the mule deer managed before the days of some rich guy shooting them off the winter range?

Ditch the governor's tag, and redo all the season dates, including cancelling the 4th buck season.


Drew, I completely agree that in Colorado, closing 4th season for at least a year or 2 would be incredibly beneficial. Especially in our areas.

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ironically, they never had a 4th buck season until the numbers were on the downhill slide...Instead of implementing a strategy to help the deer, they started hunting them during rut. I wonder how the elk would do if they started shooting them in the rut with rifles too?


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I hate cronyism, thus I strongly dislike governor's tags. Pay your standard fees and line up with the other serfs hoping for a tag.

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Originally Posted by Tanner
The way it was explained to me by a very credible and helpful source was that because, in the case of Colorado anyways, the DNR is operating at a deficit, and is being forced to make budget cuts. The funds raised by Auction/Raffle/Governor's licenses are therefore the only way that conservation and research projects get funded.

This was explained to me after I asked the question, "Couldn't Colorado raise resident hunting license prices slightly, and do away with the Gov' tags?" The idea would work if not for the budget deficit, but it is what it is. Until the deficit is dealt away, there aren't many other options to fund needed projects.

That being said, I think that Governor's tag holders should be subject to the same season dates as hunters with regular tags, and the armies of spotters and rumors of helicopter flyovers are despicable. If I needed 12 people and a Huey to help me find a big buck in Colorado, I'd probably quit right then and there.

Tanner



Take Utah for example and Utahlefty's quote. To raise the same kind of money they did with the auctioned tags, they'd have to issue enough general season tags to wipe out every big game animal in the state.

Then there would be nothing left to manage.



Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Maybe states should take a better look at the economic impacts of hunting and recreation in their state and realize they should better fund their Fish and Game Departments. Research is vital, but so is the economic impact of tens of thousands of hunters taking to the field each fall.

Keep stripping that away for the short terms gains of those with deep pockets and you don't have a sustainable situation, rural communities suffer and the state will suffer.

It's far more complicated than just the $100-$400K those tags raise.



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If you don't have enough big game to let tens of thousands of hunters to take to the field, you can't let tens of thousands take to the field.

It takes a lot of time to grow big game numbers; it doesn't happen overnight. Habitat has to be improved to grow big game. It takes time and money to improve habitat. The money has to come from somewhere and I think that game departments must feel it must come from the folks who benefit and use the resource.

But you're right about one thing, I pay plenty of taxes and most gets flushed down the toilet. I would love to have a big percentage of what I pay to to actually doing something like we're talking about instead.


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Unfortunately these days I think the Governor/auction tags are a necessary evil.

I really don't want Game &Fish money coming out of or into the general fund.

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