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Originally Posted by SU35
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I have fooled with more than a couple 7mm Weatherby's and had to lean on things pretty hard to get to 3100fps with 160's. This was from 24" barreled rigs. And I have tried every powder under the sun pretty much.
I also found the Weatherby to be a little bitchy


I used the Hornaday load data sir. It worked as shown. I went by the book.

So far the Bee has been sweet and easy to use.


How have you found it on game?

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Originally Posted by SU35


I learned that I would not be shooting your load in a Mashburn.



OK.

So a 175 gr bullet at 3160 from a 7mm Weatherby Magnum is OK...but 3050 from a Mashburn is not...I see.That's interesting.


OK we won't talk about the Speer Manual, except to say it does not show as much velocity as is claimed on here for the 7mm Weatherby and 175's.

That said,I don't have a 7mm Weatherby so maybe you guys can answer something, because I am confused about the case capacity business.

The Nosler Manual shows that the following loads for the 7MM Weatherby are "compressed":

79.5 gr Retumbo and 160's 103% density.

76 gr RL25 with 160 (102% density.

78 Retumbo 175 gr 103% density.

I know for certain (without guessing) that at least the 76 gr RL25 load is not close to compression in the Mashburn.

Can you 7mm Weatherby folks let me know if this is true?

I also note from the Nosler data that a load of 74 H1000-175 is at 97% density in the Weatherby. It is not close to 97% of filling the case with the Mashburn.

Can you guys help me understand this in light of the Weatherby having more capacity??




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Originally Posted by RinB
Originally Posted by SU35
Otherwise Bob, shut your belligerent, arrogant, angry, mouth up.


Where this train ran off the tracks.



Agreed. It would seem that mature men ought to be able to have a discussion without resorting to the ridiculous.

All this over 2 or 3 grains of capacity???????

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Does anyone make 7Bee brass besides Norma? If so, what is going to happen when the case capacity of thicker/heavier brass is actually quite a bit lower than Norma?


Why not form some 7Bee brass into Mashburn size so that we can know what the case capacity would be if we compared apples-to-apples. Then the Mashburn might shine again.

I'd really like to see what a Mashburn can do loaded to 65k, if formed with thin Norma brass and given equal freebore to a Bee. Wouldn't we see another 100-200 safe fps?

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No, we wouldn't. The case capacity is too similar between the Weatherby and Mashburn to get even close to another 100 fps at the same pressures.


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I just measured water capacity of a fired Mashburn case at 84.4 grains to the base of the neck.

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Well that is interesting! I'll double check my scale tonight. Maybe I miss read the blasted scale.

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Perusing my old Hodgdon Manual, a 24" 7mm Wby gets 3,022 with 74.7 of H1000 under a 175 Hdy SP @ 54,000 CUP. It's their only load that breaks 3,000 fps.

My bet is the Mashburn will break 3,000 easier with more than one powder.

All this is splitting hairs and I can see the arguments for either/or.

But to disregard what the Wby Freebore is accomplishing is a bit silly.


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Originally Posted by jwp475


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When CIP moved to the piezo transducer period, a mistake was made somewhere resulting in the pressure medium for .338 Lapua Magnum to stay in the 4700 Bar level, even thought the correct level is in the 4200 Bars.



4700 BAR converts to 68167.736733202 psi

Yes, and the 30-338 Lapua still has a CIP rating of 4700 Bar.

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Originally Posted by BWalker
Originally Posted by jwp475


Quote
When CIP moved to the piezo transducer period, a mistake was made somewhere resulting in the pressure medium for .338 Lapua Magnum to stay in the 4700 Bar level, even thought the correct level is in the 4200 Bars.



4700 BAR converts to 68167.736733202 psi

Yes, and the 30-338 Lapua still has a CIP rating of 4700 Bar.



30-338 only exists as a wildcat at this time, so no CIP or SAAMI standard




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Originally Posted by SU35
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I have fooled with more than a couple 7mm Weatherby's and had to lean on things pretty hard to get to 3100fps with 160's. This was from 24" barreled rigs. And I have tried every powder under the sun pretty much.
I also found the Weatherby to be a little bitchy


I used the Hornaday load data sir. It worked as shown. I went by the book.

So far the Bee has been sweet and easy to use.

I am just telling you what I found over the years with multiple 24" barreled 7mm Weatherby's.
I would say over 3100fps with 175gr bullets, at a safe pressure is a pipe dream with a 7mm weatherby and a normal length barrel, regardless of what a manual says.
Besides, are manuals really more than a very basic guideline? Heck, I have done the same thing as you and cherry picked Hornaday data and then substituted a 180gr Barnes TTSX bullets in my 24" barreled 300 Ultra and got 3400fps out of a below max load. Brass life was decent in that I reloaded some three times, accuracy was good, and no traditional pressure signs. Does this mean the load was at or below 65k PSI? I think not and there is no mystery where the velocity came from.

Last edited by BWalker; 11/17/13.
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.300 lapua mag isn't saami'd?

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Originally Posted by EddyBo
.300 lapua mag isn't saami'd?

It was standardized by CIP and I should have referred to it as above instead of saying 30-338 Lapua.

Last edited by BWalker; 11/17/13.
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http://www.lapua.com/en/story-of--338-lapua-magnum.html



Quote

The .300 Lapua Magnum

The 300 Lapua Magnum was developed concurrently with the 338 Lapua Magnum, but didn�t receive the public notoriety of its more famous stable mate. In fact, few shooters were aware of this cartridge until it appeared in the Lapua and Vihtavuori Reloading Manuals in the 1990s. Both the 300 and 338 Lapua Magnums were formally approved by CIP in 1989. During its development, the round was originally called the 30 Lapua Magnum. It wasn�t until it was finalized that it became known as the 300 Lapua Magnum. The 300 Lapua Magnum is a purely Finnish design, the brainchild of Juha Evasoja. Juha was Lapua�s head engineer from the 1970s into the early 2000�s.

The 300 Lapua can be considered a spin-off of the original development process of the 338 Lapua Magnum. It remains a true wildcat, as no factory rifles have been chambered for it, nor has ammunition ever been commercially loaded. Lapua produced a single test lot of 300 Lapua Magnum cases bearing that headstamp, but it has not been produced since. Cases used in the existing rifles chambered for the 300 Lapua Magnum are normally formed from 338 Lapua Magnum brass, necked down to accept a 30 caliber bullet.

The basic idea behind the 300 Lapua Magnum was to create a high velocity, flat-shooting 30 caliber cartridge, based on the existing 338 Lapua Magnum case. The 300 Lapua Magnum shares the same basic case dimensions as the 338 Lapua Magnum, differing mainly in the neck and shoulder areas. Case volume remains the same as the parent 338 Lapua Magnum.

The 300 Lapua Magnum is one of the first 30 caliber Magnums to reach the magical 1000/mps (3300 fps) threshold with heavy weight bullets. Actually, the new Lapua development was the first of the 30 caliber �super magnums�, when the 300 Weatherby Magnum was generally considered to be the upper limit where 30 caliber rounds were concerned. The 30-378 Weatherby (based on the necked down 378 Wby Mag case), was still an experimental wildcat cartridge and not yet fully standardized by SAAMI or CIP. It was originally proposed that the hypothetical 300 Lapua Magnum military sniper round be loaded with a 12.6 g (194 grain) B406 FMJBT. Early research indicated that this combination would deliver a muzzle velocity of 1000/mps (3300 fps) from a 27 inch barrel.

The 300 Lapua Magnum has not become a production item, yet it still exists as a long-range target cartridge. It has a loyal following for this demanding game, which is not at all surprising. Delivering ballistic performance similar to the 30-378, it does not display the sensitivity to load variations common to the Weatherby. Being a standardized CIP cartridge, several gunsmiths have built long-range rifles around this impressive round.

The 300 Lapua Magnum is at its best with very slow burning powders like Vihtavuori N170 or 24N41. Like other very large magnum cases, the 300 Lapua needs a Magnum primer for reliable ignition.

No factory made rifles for the .300 Lapua Magnum have ever existed, but several gunsmiths have built rifles for this caliber. The main application of the .300 Lapua Magnum is long range target shooting.




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No factory rifles have ever been built in 30-338 Lapua, not that the cartridge has been CIP'd



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Yes, but it was standardized by CIP, even though no rifles were commercially chambered in it.

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It says a small run were built for CIP. I asked the question, knowing the answer, pretty conclusively, but not positive. I know that the pressures were lowered for the 338, but not the 300 lapua.

I run a 7mm-338LM and a 300 lapua improved and 338LM. I love that 338LM lapua brass, great stuff, just hate the large boltface. Oh how I wish Lapua would make some RUM brass.

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Originally Posted by BWalker
Yes, but it was standardized by CIP, even though no rifles were commercially chambered in it.



If read what I posted from Laupa;s web site above it does not mention that the 300 was ever CIP'd



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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by BWalker
Yes, but it was standardized by CIP, even though no rifles were commercially chambered in it.



If read what I posted from Laupa;s web site above it does not mention that the 300 was ever CIP'd

Yes it does.
"Both the 300 and 338 Lapua Magnums were formally approved by CIP in 1989."

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
No, we wouldn't. The case capacity is too similar between the Weatherby and Mashburn to get even close to another 100 fps at the same pressures.


Okay, so basically what I'm understanding is that the 7Bee and 7MSM are nearly the same thing in case capacity, with the advantage ever so slightly to the Mashburn.

However, the 7Bee is built with freebore which gives a little bit of free lunch so that they end up virtually even in their ballistics.

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