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I have an early Rem 700 Carbine, 1963, with 20" barrel. I really like Speer 200 gr Hot Cors out of an 06. I will be using CCI 200 primers, R-P Brass, and have several powders on hand. IMR 4350, IMR 4895, RL 15, RL 17, and maybe a little H4350.
My question is what powder do you think will give me the best velocity in my carbine? Thanks for the help.
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Here are some 200 grain plus loads I have used in my .30/06:
200gn Speer SP Vel Energy 58gn Rel 19 2572 53gn IMR 4350 2620 54gn H 4350 2644 55gn H 4350 2737 3328 200gn Barnes X 53gn H 4350 2659 3141 Tikka 22" barrel 54gn H 4350 2694 3224 Warm 200gn Accubond 55gn H 414 2636 3087 Mild 56gn H 414 2720 2.5" 57gn H 414 2703 Warm 59gn H 4350 2650 3120 1" Good Load 60gn H 4831 2437 Mild - Compressed 200gn Nosler Part 57gn H 414 2733 3318 1" Good Load 58gn H 414 2762 Warm 1.5" 58gn H 4350 2556 Mild 59gn H 4350 2651 2" Seat out further 61gn H 4831 2496 Mild - Compressed Load 62.5gn H 4831 2559 2909 Mild - Powder too slow 220gn Woodleigh 57gn H 4350 2551 3180 .508" 220gn Sierra RN 56gn Win 760 2560 57gn Win 760 2605 1.2 MOA 57gn H 4350 2524 .556" 59gn H 4350 2603 Warm 51gn IMR 4350 2393 52gn IMR 4350 2403 52gn Rel 19 2170 .7" Mild
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Thanks for the info. What length of barrel are you toting?
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I like to use H4895 or H4831SC for bullet weights over 165.
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I like to use H4895 or H4831SC for bullet weights over 165. I haven't used the H4895, is it a lot different than the IMR?
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Here are some 200 grain plus loads I have used in my .30/06:
200gn Speer SP Vel Energy 58gn Rel 19 2572 53gn IMR 4350 2620 54gn H 4350 2644 55gn H 4350 2737 3328 200gn Barnes X 53gn H 4350 2659 3141 Tikka 22" barrel 54gn H 4350 2694 3224 Warm 200gn Accubond 55gn H 414 2636 3087 Mild 56gn H 414 2720 2.5" 57gn H 414 2703 Warm 59gn H 4350 2650 3120 1" Good Load 60gn H 4831 2437 Mild - Compressed 200gn Nosler Part 57gn H 414 2733 3318 1" Good Load 58gn H 414 2762 Warm 1.5" 58gn H 4350 2556 Mild 59gn H 4350 2651 2" Seat out further 61gn H 4831 2496 Mild - Compressed Load 62.5gn H 4831 2559 2909 Mild - Powder too slow 220gn Woodleigh 57gn H 4350 2551 3180 .508" 220gn Sierra RN 56gn Win 760 2560 57gn Win 760 2605 1.2 MOA 57gn H 4350 2524 .556" 59gn H 4350 2603 Warm 51gn IMR 4350 2393 52gn IMR 4350 2403 52gn Rel 19 2170 .7" Mild You are using 3 to 5 grains more H4350 for the 220 grainers than for the 200 Hotcor. Interesting. I load a 208 grain Amax over 54g Ar2209 (H4350) for 2605fps in a 23.5 inch barrel.
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Campfire Ranger
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I use H4831. 57-58&1/2 grains with a 220 gr RN. With those heavy bullet in an .06, forget about velocity and work on accuracy.
From Aussie Writer's input, you can see you will only vary 75fps esentally.Shoot what is most accutrate.No animal on the face of the earth can discern 75fps difference.
My Chrony shows 2550 for a 220 gr Sierra RN and 58&1/2 gr of H4831, so I either have a bad chrny or one of our readings is wrong.I have sure killed a lot of elk with that load and believe you can get 2600 out of a 200 gr bullet
Last edited by saddlesore; 11/21/13.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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4831 was my go-to powder for 200 gr loads,, now that I've run out 4350 seems to be just as accurate & fast.
I tend to use more than enough gun
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For heavy bullets I like IMR4350. For mid weight bullets always IMR4350. But with lighter bullets down to 150 grain I usually opt for IMR4350. I haven't found another powder that works better in 30-06.
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Thanks for the info. What length of barrel are you toting? 22" Featherweight. Many on these loads have been trialed in test rifles of the same length. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Something to note from my handloads:
Firstly, I always use my Oehler 35P when working up loads because if the velocity is uncharacteristically excessive for the cartridge, then I know the pressures are too high, irrespective of the pressure signs witnessed or otherwise.
This is an important comment because some rifles do not show much in the way of what is considered traditional excess pressure signs. Because I spent a lot of years and range time testing rifles, components and cartridges, I witnessed some rifles that never had tight extraction, sticky both lift, or any other traditional sign including flat primers, or anything else, but if the chrono said too high, it is too high.
Handloads can teach you some things but again, signs are not fact. Sloppy primer pockets are not signs of excess pressure if the brass is soft, but pressure is still too high for that particular lot of brass.
Hand weighed loads are not fool proof, maybe the best option, but still not foolproof. I have hammered the bolt open on repeat handloads that were tested over long periods as safe.
Never ever trust a new batch of powder. Always work up.
Never expect all primers to be the same. They can generate different velocities and especially, can change group size and shape as well as POI.
Recommended loads are always to be viewed as "someone else's loads" "not yours" until you test and verify by working up and confirming where your best loads are to be for a given rifle.
My loads are just to give you a head start on where some powders performed. Yet another reason why bulk supplies of the same lot are always the best money spent.
Another thing to consider is that manufacturers change spec's without telling you....ever,
Bullet shapes, ogives, bearing surfaces, boat tail dimensions, internal jacket dimensions, exposure internal diameter at bullet tip, cannelure depth and location can change and that's just the bullet.
Powders are changed and you are not told. Some powders are re-branded. That means the source can change. That also means an established powder can change to suit the new contract, ie new burning rate requirement.
Fortunately, this usually means a slower version which is another reason there is no announcement because making powders slower "usually" means a lowering of pressures so as long as the rifle goes back, "Joe Paycheck", won't notice any difference as these subtle changes still permit Joe;s deer to fall over as usual.
Trust nothing, check everything and you will have a relatively surprise free handloading life.
One thing I would mention is that you will notice my 4831 loads are unimpressive compared to the 760/4350ish loads. In my handloading which some years could burn 30 pounds of powder, never ever got the velocities many other people get for the 4831's particularly in the .30/06 case.
That is why these are my loads.
John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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53.8gr of RL-17 gets 2725fps in my Sako Finnlight, good hunting accuracy. Tipped a moose upside down with that load.
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Something to note from my handloads:
Firstly, I always use my Oehler 35P when working up loads because if the velocity is uncharacteristically excessive for the cartridge, then I know the pressures are too high, irrespective of the pressure signs witnessed or otherwise.
This is an important comment because some rifles do not show much in the way of what is considered traditional excess pressure signs. Because I spent a lot of years and range time testing rifles, components and cartridges, I witnessed some rifles that never had tight extraction, sticky both lift, or any other traditional sign including flat primers, or anything else, but if the chrono said too high, it is too high.
Handloads can teach you some things but again, signs are not fact. Sloppy primer pockets are not signs of excess pressure if the brass is soft, but pressure is still too high for that particular lot of brass.
Hand weighed loads are not fool proof, maybe the best option, but still not foolproof. I have hammered the bolt open on repeat handloads that were tested over long periods as safe.
Never ever trust a new batch of powder. Always work up.
Never expect all primers to be the same. They can generate different velocities and especially, can change group size and shape as well as POI.
Recommended loads are always to be viewed as "someone else's loads" "not yours" until you test and verify by working up and confirming where your best loads are to be for a given rifle.
My loads are just to give you a head start on where some powders performed. Yet another reason why bulk supplies of the same lot are always the best money spent.
Another thing to consider is that manufacturers change spec's without telling you....ever,
Bullet shapes, ogives, bearing surfaces, boat tail dimensions, internal jacket dimensions, exposure internal diameter at bullet tip, cannelure depth and location can change and that's just the bullet.
Powders are changed and you are not told. Some powders are re-branded. That means the source can change. That also means an established powder can change to suit the new contract, ie new burning rate requirement.
Fortunately, this usually means a slower version which is another reason there is no announcement because making powders slower "usually" means a lowering of pressures so as long as the rifle goes back, "Joe Paycheck", won't notice any difference as these subtle changes still permit Joe;s deer to fall over as usual.
Trust nothing, check everything and you will have a relatively surprise free handloading life.
One thing I would mention is that you will notice my 4831 loads are unimpressive compared to the 760/4350ish loads. In my handloading which some years could burn 30 pounds of powder, never ever got the velocities many other people get for the 4831's particularly in the .30/06 case.
That is why these are my loads.
John Thanks for the information. Many of the things you have mentioned I have already learned. I am not a newbie to handloading, but not quite an old pro like some on here. Of the several 30-06's I have already and load for, I never seem to get even close to book velocities, or any one elses for that matter. Just trying to pick some brains on what might be the best powder to get a little extra velocity out of a short barrel. Also, for those who like the H4831 for the 30-06, are you using a drop tube, I have never been able to get very much of it in a case without filling up into the neck.
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I can't get the speeds with H4831 that manuals say I should with the 30-06, especially with 180g bullets.
I can jam as much under the bullets as will fit, but never seem to even break 2700fps even with the 23.5 inch barrel.
The Lyman manual I have says 2840fps with the 180g bullet and H4831.
More like 2640 in my gun.
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59 grains of H4831, 200 partition and lapua brass - in mine worked great. light weight mtn rifle kicked quite a bit.
Last edited by roninflag; 11/22/13.
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For lighter weight bullets in the 150 gr class, you can't get enough H4831 powder in a .06 case to be dangerous. Kick that up to 180,then 200 and 220gr, and you are in trouble. 58&1/2 seems to be the limit in my gun.
Many years ago, shooting competition when 4831 as in the 50 cents a pound realm, and you could buy DCM bullets for 2 cents apiece, it was common practice to scoop the case full of 4831, tap it on the bench and then scoop to fill it, then seat a 150 gr bullet. You could weigh all you want, but still couldn't get much more than 60 grains in it. Even with a 18" drop tube, you couldn't get much more.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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superperformance and RL 17 and 22
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For lighter weight bullets in the 150 gr class, you can't get enough H4831 powder in a .06 case to be dangerous. Kick that up to 180,then 200 and 220gr, and you are in trouble. 58&1/2 seems to be the limit in my gun.
Many years ago, shooting competition when 4831 as in the 50 cents a pound realm, and you could buy DCM bullets for 2 cents apiece, it was common practice to scoop the case full of 4831, tap it on the bench and then scoop to fill it, then seat a 150 gr bullet. You could weigh all you want, but still couldn't get much more than 60 grains in it. Even with a 18" drop tube, you couldn't get much more.
My comment relates to AR2213SC which is H4831SC: 61g under a Hornady 180g Interlock in Rem brass, really packed in; they only clocked about 2650fps. Using the same load but subbing 180 Nosler BTs boosted the speed up to 2680fps. The BT seems to generate a little more pressure.
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My go to hunting load has always been 60gr of h4831 in win cases with a 200 NP. When we first clocked it the load was getting 2600-2640fps. That was in a mod 70 fwt with a 22" barrel. But the last couple of times we chrono'd it that load was just over 2500fps. Probably incorrect readings the first time but that load has tipped over every moose I've shot so it works for me.
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Dano I actually think ADI is brewing a slower compound these days for the H4831. I base this on nothing but observations of chrony speeds in a handful of calibres in my and friends' rifles.
270 Win, 30-06, 7mm RM, 300WM and 243 Win among them have all clocked slower than they "should" have with H4831/AR2213SC.
It hasn't been a big problem, I just find you need to up the charges a bit to bring speeds up nearer where they should be, obviously going up incrementally and chrony testing as I go.
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