Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Kansas, Uncas, and the .30-40 Krag Buck

Greg,

I did a little research on that mold. It IS a transitional mold.
Ideal was trying to find the optimal bullet for the Krag. There are three different, yet almost alike, molds during the turn of the 19th/20th Centuries, all cast plain base bullets of 196 or 197gr, the only real differences were the sizes of the lube grooves.
The one you have there is the middle child in that series. They were discontinued after the Lyman 311299, the GC version was developed.

If you want to see the other bullets, go to the "Ol' Buffalo Bullet Tables" HERE.
The 311299 seems to be pretty well liked by the '06 shooters, too.

Ed

If any of you crazy Krag shooters want some 311299's to wring out, let me know. I've got a GC 3-cavity mold from NOE that throws a perfect 311299 - my Stevens 44 1/2 with the Krag barrel screwed up shoots MOA with this boolit out to at least 200 yds with 17 gr. 2400 behind it at 1600 fps at the muzzle. Varget runs the velocity up and maintains the precision, but the 2400 load is a joy to shoot.

Good thread , this.

I've had a home brewed beer, and will lazily avoid a new thread.

Ed,....couldn't resist trying out that "Double Pour Dumpster",and fired up that Saeco 2 holer,..... albeit without the best mold handles. Had to spin the Allen sets down to fit, and when you do get a new set of large Saeco Handles, they'll already be fitted ( I think)



This went down fast, outdoors, no casting thermometer, and without any high degree of precision,... like any SAECO mold I've ever seen,....or used, the (superb)iron blocks are out gassing their machining oil,.......I did NOT soak them, just wiped em' out and smoked em' with the cutting torch. Use em' a bit, they'll clean right up.

Weights look to be VERY close, cavity to cavity.

As expected,set up mid-point between this mold and the other, the ladle's not perfectly tight,.....I kinda' like the way it bypasses and keeps the sprue plate wet, myself,......a glove on one's left hand not a bad idea, though.

Sorry for the late reply, Ed - 49 grains IMR 4350

More Christmas Eve shenanigans here,.......on the left, some regular BP Lead -Tin bullet alloy.

In the middle some of that "Ringy" alloy that a few lucky scouts took home from here,....last year,.....cast at a nominal 700*

On the right, "Ringy" alloy cast screaming hot, in a well ventilated area.



The "Ringy" slugs are a good .004 to .005" LARGER than the Lead Tin Slugs. They are VERY tough, and a thumbnail won't TOUCH em'.

The Ones cast at the hottest temp look as thought the Antimony is coming back out of solution ? ......I don't typically screw around with the hard alloys,....so am in no way sure what's up here.

Spooling up the tooling to do a short run of that .38 Short, or .38 S&W, or whatever it is here,.....pure shooting recreational pastime.

GTC

Pretty straightforward tooling,......the mandrel poctured gets hammered into a .38 Spl case, indexed against the lathe chuck, and a threading insert brought in to trim it to .780"

The mandrel is pulled out of the lathe, and once mounted in the shell holder on an old RCBS press,....and raised,pinned with a broken scrtach awl, and the ram lowered. The cases FIT the old revolver's chambers, at this point.

I'd take you up on that offer...

I have an 1898 Cavalry Carbine....I usually shoot 180 grain Speer RNs out of it.. behind a charge of 25grs of SR 4759...
right at 2000 fps...

it does real well with 168 gr Match bullets at 200 yds...

Mid range (and slower) cast bullet loads ROCK,....and are a little easier on today's lean budgets. 168 MKs in front of 3031, running SLOW are among the more accurate .30-06 loads I've seen, or assembled.

Long as the subject is "Blasts from the Past" ,....check out this old Lubri-Sizer,....while enjoying the all to brief warmest part of this day, and waiting for the Lead pot to get up to speed, I melted what had to have been 100 years of old ossified and caked Ideal Bullet lube off the thing, and annointed it with a little Diesel #2. It's (barely) now clean enough to strip down further on the bench. Wears a .377 sizer and punch,......probably fed a .38-55, or such



Zoom in a bit,....



Should have shot a pic of the box of original Ideal Black Gak that came with this old veteran.

THe pins are SLIGHTLY worn,....and the thing looks like it's good for at least another 500 years of hard service

GTC

i have a old lyman cast bullet book which as an article in it about casting bullets for the 30.06 with around a 170 grain bullet to get sub moa groups at 100yards. If i remember right they were using unique for the powder. No reason the same thing couldn't be done for the 30.40.
Long story how i got there but these military rifles are kind of a passion for me, and i do have several complete 30.40 kraigs. Have a 1898 carbine beside me right now, that i was fitting into these little calvary scabbards i acquired. About a three inch piece of leather forms the scabbard, mounted with a clip to the saddle.
The only problem with a kraig is that one lug bolt. Consequently i don't push them very hard in original rifles.
I have cast around a 170 grain bullet, loaded to around 1600 to 1700 fps and they worked okay. I have wanted the 200 grain mould with the wide gas grooves for the same thing. Seems like i read in a lyman book that they said that 200grain roundnose worked best for the kraig. I am storing a bunch of kraigs for a guy that is worse than i am about them. He looked at one of my cutdowns found in a pawn shop, and told me he thought it was a bannerman conversion. Nice little rifle. found in a pawn shop in nevada for 175bucks, came with the original cleaning kit in the buttstock, original sling, and brass muzzle guard. Couple of years ago i was getting grief from a friend about my obsolete ideas. I had a remington 760 18inch carbine loaded with 220 grain hornadys down to 2000fps to duplicate kraig military loadings. He was telling me it wouldn't be any good over 100yards. Yeah, right
i have fired the conversion, not the others. Been thinking about shooting this carbine. I have quite a bit of ol ammo i acquired last year including some of the super x. Been thinking of running a few rounds of that through a chrony, but haven't done it.

Greg,
Thanks for the photos and all of your work on this project.

I'm really looking forward to using the "Cameron Double Dumpster" ladle!

I'm intrigued by the possible alloy combinations for that two-piece bullet.

Hard body, soft nose for expansion at moderate/high velocities in the .458WM or soft body, hard nose to avoid "nose slump" in BPCR.

I also like your idea of the "Everlasting" cases and the nose section slugs for a small game load. A "heeled" bullet of roughly 200gr at 750-800 fps would be a sure rabbit/grouse getter as well as a "gallery load" for short range offhand practice.

I'm really liking this whole project.

Ed

Posted elsewhere, this AM, re: Noses

It would be fun to peruse a Boker's catalogue and come up with one of their washers that would I.D fit that "Base Pin / Spud",.....with an I.d of .4595 or so. One of their Teflons or Nylatron would work. A rather modernized version of the Picket bullet,and one that would make another GREAT "Small Game" load, for the large stomper.

........on reflection, a common Fiber or Cork Washer, suitably impregnated with Bullet Lube / Alox, and dusted with Moly or Motor Mica would probably suffice. Basically just trying to keep the thing co-axed, and allow use of standard cases.

....How 'bout standing the nose cast in a vertical tubular "Die", with a bottom that centers the nose,.....and just giving the Base / Spud a healthy blorp of red high heat silicone ?

.....possibilities abound.

GTC

nice story on the buck and lite load :), also a very interesting thread on casting and finding out how innovative some of you guys are .

norm

Thanks for the kind words, Norm. Ken ad Greg are the innovative ones here. I'm jut a passenger on this bus, trying to learn how to drive it by watching a couple of masters.

I can't wait to get my hands on those toys and start putting everything together.

Greg,
I would think that a stamped "washer" would be more consistent than a glob of something squirted out, unless you over-poured and then trimmed with a razor blade.

Also, Greg, what do you think about me copy & pasting these pics and starting another thread down in Bullet Casting?

I'm sure other folks would be interested in what you and Ken have accomplished.

Ed