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On a somewhat related note I think we would all benefit if we paid the irresponsible, criminals etc. to get sterilized. This would certainly reduce the demand for abortions. Maybe a year of free lottery tickets? I have a nephew we could put at the front of the line.
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Campfire Tracker
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The thing I will never get is this.
Someone can go to prison for murder if they cause the death of a fetus, but folks can decided to have a Doc kill a fetus, and it's ok. I don't get it.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Good point. Wish I had thought of that.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Gentlemen of the campfire,its been many years since school so forgive me if Im not correct.A person becomes human life when their DNA becomes complete.They will never become more human.Isnt this completion what we call fertilized.
Ideas are far more powerful than guns, We dont let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas. "Joseph Stalin"
He who has braved youths dizzy heat dreads not the frost of age.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The Lord said "thou shalt not commit murder", Scott. HE did not say 'Though shalt not Kill', otherwise HE would not have directed the Battle of Jericho and others where HE instructed that ALL the enemy be killed (all, includes Children). He also commanded the elders of the church hunt down and kill a murderer. So, I don't think HE considers Texas's executioners to be murderers. I also don't think HE considers our US Army sniper team to be murderers or those who fought and killed the enemy in Desert Storm, WW1 or WW2.
If He had said we can't kill, deer hunting or using antibiotics would be a sin. Hmmm, cherry picked biblical passages to support your position? You sir, must be an orator of the highest quality. Laffin' The original translation of the Ten Commandments is normally relegated a higher position than 'cherry picking'.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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Campfire Ranger
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Your points were solid, eyeball.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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To quote Tupac "....ladies that make the babies
And since a man can't make one, He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one"
Creation order: Man was created first, woman second. "For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. " 1 Timothy 2:13 Creation origin: Man and all creation was created by God directly out of dust, whereas woman was created through the man's rib. "Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. " Genesis 2:7 Woman is the only creature not made from dust. Woman derives her origin from Man. "The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. " Genesis 2:22 "For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man" 1 Corinthians 11:8 Creation purpose: Woman created for man: "for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake." 1 Corinthians 11:9
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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To my knowledge, there has never been one. Given the 'fire's stellar reputation as a forum where reason and respect for opposing viewpoints is the prevalent atmosphere, perhaps it is our duty to have a debate on this contentious issue.
According to our rules requiring full disclosure, I admit to being on the "pro-life" side of the argument, but with reservations.
Life begins at conception, since there is no other place to draw the line between existence and non-existence. So.... an abortion ends a life.
Conversely, contraceptives prevent the possibility of a life, but don't end one. Use of the "morning after pill" might end a life, but it is not a certainty, so I see no difference between it and a condom.
So.... the question comes down to WHO has the authority to end a life?
Homicides are committed daily. By definition, it is the taking of one person's life by another person.
Even among those which are not ruled justifiable, we make distinctions. Manslaughter to Capital murder, with several possibilities in between.
But.. "my side" allows no distinctions. Abortion is murder, period.
I admit to being troubled by that.
And you................ ? Maybe I need to browse to the last page of this thread and see if you really pulled "rational" off.
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Campfire Ranger
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78 replies and no name calling. It this the real Campfire? Really? Maybe I'll go back and give the thread a gander then.
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Campfire Ranger
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infanticide is just plain wrong. Period. Life begins at conception. Ya it does..technically. IMHO a glob of tissue that WILL GROW into a child, is not yet a child, no more than a fertile egg is a chicken. Without going into depth in regards to medical opinion, I am pro-choice up until a fetus is capable of thought, pain, and feeling. At that point I become pro-life. The Morning After Pill does not offend my senses, but then again I do not come from a background of religion.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856 |
On a somewhat related note I think we would all benefit if we paid the irresponsible, criminals etc. to get sterilized. This would certainly reduce the demand for abortions. Maybe a year of free lottery tickets? I have a nephew we could put at the front of the line. Yes, we should pay them - with free, forced sterilization.
Last edited by eyeball; 01/23/14.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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A distinct human person begins at conception, with unique genetic material that will never change into a different ontological substance.
The "potential life" argument has been disproven genetically, physically, and philosophically numerous times--why keep rehashing it? Pro-choice/pro-abortionists no longer use it for the purpose of debate. Planned Parenthood has even dropped it from their literature and their legal arguments.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The thing I will never get is this.
Someone can go to prison for murder if they cause the death of a fetus, but folks can decided to have a Doc kill a fetus, and it's ok. I don't get it. Consent and intent matter.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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infanticide is just plain wrong. Period. Life begins at conception. Ya it does..technically. IMHO a glob of tissue that WILL GROW into a child, is not yet a child, no more than a fertile egg is a chicken. Without going into depth in regards to medical opinion, I am pro-choice up until a fetus is capable of thought, pain, and feeling. At that point I become pro-life. The Morning After Pill does not offend my senses, but then again I do not come from a background of religion. One will get federal charges for disturbing a fertilized eagle egg...but we can free kill our own. Doesn't seem right, to me anyways. I'm not trying to contradict your view, I just suppose I look at things differently than some. JMO and yours. Were all granted that.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Gentlemen of the campfire,its been many years since school so forgive me if Im not correct.A person becomes human life when their DNA becomes complete.They will never become more human.Isnt this completion what we call fertilized. This is an opinion, that in all likely hood coincides with your religious belief. Just because you assert it, does not make it true. Barak covered this in his egg/chicken example.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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infanticide is just plain wrong. Period. Life begins at conception. Ya it does..technically. IMHO a glob of tissue that WILL GROW into a child, is not yet a child, no more than a fertile egg is a chicken. Without going into depth in regards to medical opinion, I am pro-choice up until a fetus is capable of thought, pain, and feeling. At that point I become pro-life. The Morning After Pill does not offend my senses, but then again I do not come from a background of religion. One will get federal charges for disturbing a fertilized eagle egg...but we can free kill our own. Doesn't seem right, to me anyways. I'm not trying to contradict your view, I just suppose I look at things differently than some. JMO and yours. Were all granted that. How many black babies are you willing to adopt in support of your belief?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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The thing I will never get is this.
Someone can go to prison for murder if they cause the death of a fetus, but folks can decided to have a Doc kill a fetus, and it's ok. I don't get it. Consent and intent matter. Even a woman whom self-inflicts an abortion can be charged if a healthcare provider isn't used. Just my view of things...in the end, death is death.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,910
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,910 |
infanticide is just plain wrong. Period. Life begins at conception. Ya it does..technically. IMHO a glob of tissue that WILL GROW into a child, is not yet a child, no more than a fertile egg is a chicken. Without going into depth in regards to medical opinion, I am pro-choice up until a fetus is capable of thought, pain, and feeling. At that point I become pro-life. The Morning After Pill does not offend my senses, but then again I do not come from a background of religion. One will get federal charges for disturbing a fertilized eagle egg...but we can free kill our own. Doesn't seem right, to me anyways. I'm not trying to contradict your view, I just suppose I look at things differently than some. JMO and yours. Were all granted that. How many black babies are you willing to adopt in support of your belief? My youngest sister is black. What your point? We said rational. My view is, if you can't take care of the child, there are many preventative measures to make prior to having to kill.
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,642 |
The thing I will never get is this.
Someone can go to prison for murder if they cause the death of a fetus, but folks can decided to have a Doc kill a fetus, and it's ok. I don't get it. Consent and intent matter. Whose? I doubt the fetus consents or cares about intent as the outcome is the same.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,202
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2004
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A distinct human person begins at conception, with unique genetic material that will never change into a different ontological substance.
The "potential life" argument has been disproven genetically, physically, and philosophically numerous times--why keep rehashing it? Pro-choice/pro-abortionists no longer use it for the purpose of debate. Planned Parenthood has even dropped it from their literature and their legal arguments. So it is your contention that planned parenthood believes potential life, is life? I doubt that. The whole basis of the pro-life movement is that it is not a life.
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