Home Forums Birds & Dogs Turkey Hunting Winchester New Long Beard shells.

Has anybody tried them? I am a admirer of their Supreme Elite shells which you can't get anymore so am thinking of going to these. They get rave reviews but of course that's from the guys that they pay to use them. It looks like they are plated with a shell sleeve that is suppose to keep the shot together longer.
They claim kills out to 60 yards, but if you have to take a bird at 60 yards you're not going to go hunting with me.

I had my local guns shop guy oreder me a couple of boxes to try. Haven't pick them up yet. I got 3 1/2" #5's.

I can't find any 3" in stock. I want to try them, I have a back order or two in for them.

They're putting up patterns that blow any other lead shell away. It's not a shell sleeve. The pellets are encased in a solid resin that keeps the pellets from moving around in the shell/getting deformed. When the shell is fired, the resin shatters, and turns into buffer. They carry their energy down range like any standard lead load. Where they shine is pattern density, i.e. more hits on target. If you want to use lead, they are the shell to have.

I was able to play with them a while back and yes they are all that they say they are! The patter is tight enough that if you don't have some kind of optic on your shotgun you should seriously consider getting one as at 15 or 20yds it would be easy to miss the turkey's head completely as the pattern is so tight it's like shooting a 8" rifle! I'm not sure about 70yds but at 60yds I wouldn't have a problem shooting a bird. This was with 3" #6.

I would have a huge problem shooting a bird at 60 yards. With lead 6s you're seriously lacking pellet energy to reliably and consistently make clean kills. You might have the pattern density, but you won't have the energy. Much past 40 yards, and 6s start losing energy rapidly. 5s might get you to 50 yards, but even that's iffy. 4s would have the energy at 50 and maybe 60, but pattern density falls off way before that. That's my peeve with theses shells. Hugely irresponsible marketing. Every Joe Schmoe is going to think they can be wacking turkeys at 50, 60, and 70 yards. A lot of birds are going to get wounded. If you want to kill turkeys at 60 yards, spend some money and start handloading TSS, or buy a rifle.

I agree that 1 or 2 #6's will not have enough energy but if you hit the head with 10 or 12 of them the bird is going down right now. THese shells shoot so tight that that many pellets is easilly obtainable at those distances.

No, it won't, and no it's not. Do some penetration testing, instead of just reading what's on the box. Punching holes in paper, and killing turkeys are two different things. Lead 6s are lead 6s, any way you slice it. And they lack the energy, period. 1 hit, or 40. You're going to have wounded birds. Have you even patterned them at 60 yards, or are you just guessing, based at patterns from 40 yards. How many pellets do you consistently get from your 3 inch 6s in a 10 inch circle at 60 yards?

Lead is too soft and deforms and loses energy at that distance. Each individual pellet has to have enough energy to break a turkey's skull in order to kill at any given distance. Lead 6's started at 1400 fps or less will not retain enough energy to break a turkey's skull at 60 yds. Doesn't matter if you hit them with 100 pellets. 4's probably will but even they are not 100% reliable if you could even get the pattern density to shoot them.

Hevi-shot and TSS are denser and therefore retain a lot more energy. If you want to kill turkeys at 60 yds then you better be shooting one of these loads. Lead just won't do it. Sure you may get lucky one time but you won't do it consistently.

Hevi shot is even a stretch at 60 but TSS is not.

Lee

I wouldn't attempt a 60 yard shot with lead #6's. The individual pellet energy just isn't there. I have killed gobblers at 50 yards with plated lead #5's a couple of times. Frankly I misjudged the range or that wouldn't have happened because I wouldn't have taken the shots had I realized the true distance. Hevi13 hits them a lot harder and kills better beyond 40 yards.

I will be running them through my Winchester 1300 as soon as I can get my hands on them to see what pattern density I can get. For year's I have been running Nitro's through this shotgun with great patterns out to 40 paces.

IMO, the thrill in turkey hunting is the calling them in close, not taking them at long distance. I'm looking for consistent patterns.

I think Randy Wakeman gave a good and unbiased review of the LB shells. Take home message; a lead #6 (or 5 etc) will always be a lead #6.

http://randywakeman.com/TheVerdicton...urkeyLoads.htm

Wow, didn't start this thread to get into a controversy. Lets look at this. First is that these shells are replacing their Supreme elite which was one heck of a shell but components were getting to expensive to produce them. Now they have the XR . It is a copper coated shell. Other than that it still retains the same weight as a regular coated lead shell. It does have the sleeve to keep the shoot together longer but the basic law of ballistics (weight in motion will stay in motion) means it has the same weight loss as a regular coated lead shell. I think Winchester did a good job developing this shell but touting it as a 60 yard killing hell is wrong. I don't believe any shell except a rifle has that kind of consistent energy at that range to take birds.

Winchester is getting 1.5" of penetration at 60yds with the #5's in gelatin which is enough to kill a bird with a couple pellets. I didn't see a test for #6's. The point is that this shot won't deform and lose energy like most lead shot because of the poured in buffering. Yes it will still lose energy but a round pellet retains more energy that one that is flattened.

I'd rather have big enough pellets to break legs and wings at 40 than pattern density to get it done on paper at 60. Not a fan of 6's for even late season pheasants.

Not because I body shoot turkeys but because [bleep] happens.

Yeah, those running and flying away shots can be tough sometimes.

Breaking bones, and penetrating gelatin are two completely different things. The lead flattens when it hits the target, reducing penetration. It might be round in the air, when it makes impact, it flattens. Low energy, and flattening leading to hindered penetration and less ability to break bones. Those two factors added together isn't what adds up to consistent reliable kills on the real thing. Ever think maybe, just maybe, winchester adds a little fluff to their tests to make their product look better than the competiion? like I said, test it yourself. Put up your 60 yard pattern pictures and your penetration tests for all of us to see, if you're going to claim you have no problem taking 60 yard shots.

You sir are 100% correct. Just throw a fresh turkey skin over the jello and see what happens.

Speaking of pheasants.
One place I hunt requires steel. I use #2's. With lead its #4's and with both, I hit them again on the way down. A extra shell is a lot cheaper than a spur in my dogs eye.

On turkeys, I shoot 1 shot per year. I think I'll stick to Hevi shot or TSS

Lead 6s actually do have plenty of penetration energy to kill at 60yds, but they lack pattern density. These new shells pattern well, but I've yet to see a pattern shot with them that made them much more than a 50yd load(speaking in terms of 100 hits in a 10" circle). That said, 50yard kill counts with lead are definitely something to be happy about.

As far as deformation of lead shot on target...While it seems it would be the case, it's actually not when it comes to hard, magnum grade plated shot. I've tested many different shot types as far as penetration is concerned and have always noted that plated mag grade shot does not deform a notable amount unless shot into something such as steel. Even when shot into wood, the recovered pellets show very little deformation. That said, they do deform at initial set-back when not buffered properly. The keys to good long range lead loads are hard shot, proper buffer, proper speed, good wads, and a good choke/bbl combo.

I've taken many toms cleanly at 50+ yards with lead 6s, but that was with well tested combos. It's much harder to develop lead shells that provide the proper pattern density at longer ranges than it is with the many different HTL shot types available.

I use hevi 7.5 loads more than any others, which have less penetration energy than lead 6s. What they lack in penetration energy, they make up in pattern density(IE patterns of 130-170 hits in a 10" circle at 60yds). I know for a fact that those small 7.5s will penetrate the skull of a tom past 60yds, it's been proven time after time.

Folks really need to get energy out of their mind sets when it comes to "turkey" loads. Focus on pattern density plain and simple. Find the loads your rig likes, find the distance you can consistently place 100 hits in the 10" circle, set that as your MER(Maximum Effective Range), and go kill turkeys.

Have a good one,

loder

Excellent post and correlates exactly with my experiences as well with lead and hs.