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Lead 6s have plenty of penetration energy at 60 yards? Really? That's a new one. Do you have any idea why those HTL 7.5s penetrate so well? Comparing their penetration at 60 yards to lead 6's is laughable.

Well, the UPS guy just dropped off a box of the 3" 5's that I had on back order. The snow is starting to melt here so maybe I can give them a try soon and see what they will do.

Let us know what you think of them. This discussion is getting lively.

Hopefully will shoot this weekend. Whenever I do, I'll post my results.

Here is a picture of a target from my son's youth model Browning BPS with a Carlsons tube and #7 Federal mag shok heavyweight. Target was shot at 50 yards.

He took a nice 23 lb tom with 1.5" spurs at 45 yards with it last year. That was his longest shot at a turkey. Dropped him in his tracks.

Actually lead 6's have more kinetic energy than hevi (12g/cc) 7.5's. I still don't think I'd recommend shooting either one at a turkey at 60 yards.
If you've got your heart set on shooting one that far , you really need a minimum of either lead #4, hevi #5, federal heavyweight # 7, or TSS #9.

I like TSS 9's.

That's exactly my point. Even with less kinetic energy, the 7s would still penetrate better. But shooting at a turkey at 60 yards with any lead shell, and most hevi shot shells is asking for trouble. The federal heavyweight shells are a whole new animal, and TSS raises that bar through the roof! Still though, shooting at turkeys at 60 yards with a shotgun is a risky proposition.

It's a lot more fun to talk about how close you can get them anyway

Amen to that!

What is TSS and who makes them? Is the heavy Shot the one by Remington?
Thanks

Actually the lead 6 penetrates better than the hevi 7.5, borden811. I've tested them both in wet phone books. I'll post the calcs later to show the penetration energy if that will help.

Hevi 7.5s do indeed have ample kill/penetration energy at ranges past 60yds, but one must have the pattern density to ensure hits to the CNS. My 3.5" Hevi 7.5 1200fps handloads give a pattern density of 130-170 hits in a 10" circle at 60yds depending on the gun/choke used, which allows for multiple CNS strikes at that range as well as longer ranges. I call 60 the max for a buffer due to conditions or misjudged range estimate. We've tested these loads on toms at 65yds multiple times with 100% success. On one tom that was shot at 65 facing away, we did a thorough autopsy to check penetration. Not only did the pellets riddle the CNS, the pattern was dispersed enough to take in the body. Those pellets that impacted the body, penetrated the feathers, skin, meat, ribs, and fully penetrated the vital organs as well. I also thoroughly examined two toms that were shot low neck/upper body at 35yds with the same loads and the pellets fully penetrated the body. Yes, in one side and either against the off skin or exited the off side in the center mass of adult 22-24lb toms!

Another very interesting penetration example was that of a youth load I developed for my Nephew to take his first tom with. He was very recoil shy at the time, so I developed a 12ga 7/8oz NP lead #7 load at a mere 1100fps that gave kill counts to 35yds on paper from a 25" bbl 870 with JH665 choke. Despite many practice sessions with the boy, Tom fever took over at the moment of truth and he placed the load center mass of a large tom at 25 yards. No pellets hit the CNS, it was purely a body shot. Those NP 7s at a mere 1100fps completely penetrated the large tom's body, broke large bones, riddled his vital organs, and put him down for the count. Amazing that light weight lead 7s at low MV did so well:


Back to my main point...Find a turkey load you like, find the MER(Maximum Effective Range = 100/10), and go kill turkeys. It really is as simple as that. I spend thousands of $ developing handloads with various types of shot, do penetration testing, spend countless hours patterning various combos, etc., and it always comes back to that simple line of advice for me.

Have a good one,

loder

I fully agree with you call them in closer or past the shot. 70 yards is rifle shooting distant , not shotgun.

I think some of you are smoking some good stuff. Years back Winchester put out a report, I believe in conjunction with Tom Roster involving what was necessary for a lethal turkey killing load. Roughly it takes 2 ft/lbs of energy to reliably break a turkeys skull vertebrae. Lead 6s, leaving the gun at 1200 fps drop below that at 35 yards. And you're trying to tell me they work great at 60 yards? Wet paper is far from flesh and bone. That is info that Winchester themselves released. And now they, along with a couple of you are trying to tell me that their new load is great for killing turkeys at 60 yards? Come on people. lead 5s launched at 1200fps drop below 2ft/lbs at 45 yards. Lead 4s at 1200 make it to 60, barely. But Pattern density is beyond useless at that point. It's not simply a matter of having enough pellets on target. Even pellet distribution/pattern density is a large part of it, but the pellets need to have enough energy to do the job when they get there. 60 yards ain't where it's at!

LOL

I never said lead 6s work great at 60yds, I said they have more than enough penetration energy. The problem with lead, as I've mentioned multiple times, is pattern density.

Here's what KPY says for penetration of various shots in some loads I run. That is ballistics gel penetration at 60 yards when started at the stated MVs:
Hevi 7.5 @ 1220 0.95"
Pb 6 @ 1300 1.20"
TSS 9 @ 1080 1.58"
HW 7 @ 1100 1.75"

There is not a Tom on this earth that can take a 100+ pattern of Hevi 7.5 at 60 yards.

We'll just have to agree to disagree

loder

The farthest I'll take my 3" Magnum blend is 45 yards under the best conditions. It's much more fun to get them in close than to try sniping with scatter guns. That is truly the turkey hunting sport and challenge as I see it.

Turkey head is a small target past 35 yards , 60 and 70 yards it ain't much bigger than a piss ant at five ft . Even if the load has the energy , just to much room for error at the 60 and 70 yards shots to make it worth taking the shot. I would be willing to bet , for every Turkey killed at 60 and 70 yards , 10 or more are crippled and lost .

Well, I just got my American Rifleman magazine and in the Winchester Ad the guys claim that they killed a bird at 66 yards with the new shot. To me this is plain B.S. The guys are lousey hunters if they have to take a bird at that range and shame on Winchester for touting their success. I can see a lot of crippled birds left to rot in the woods by them encouraging hunters to take these kind of shots.

Half the fun is getting them close....the other half is eating them...

Must be some good stuff. Mark and Terry Drury killed one at 66 yards. Bird had 12 holes in his head and neck. This is according to the ad in Mack's Prairie Wings catalog. Foolish to shoot at a bird at 66 yards IMO. Even more foolish to include it in ad.

he same ad was in the American Rifleman. The Drury's must be lousey hunter if they have to take a bird at that range. I think most respectable Turkey hunters would pass on one that far out. I always thought it was the challenge of the hunt working them in close as any good Turkey hunter would, not wacking them at such an extreme range. I know a guy who shoots them out of his truck, he's going to love this shell