Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Governor at the range. My video of what ammo works best.

I'm sticking with the simple bead front sight though.

I think Venturino did a test on this years ago and found #12 to simply pulverize prairie rattlers.

I've been looking for #12 in local shops ever since...



Travis

Shooting through walls...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

I don't know if I read that one, but he's right. I got onto it when I noticed that .22 shot cartridges killed every bit as good as .45 ACP shot cartridges; and I just couldn't understand that. Neither one was really impressive. So I took each apart and that's when I found the difference in shot size. Then I remembered when I was a kid visiting a logging outfit and damn near everyone carried a High Standard DA .22 mag in their pocket and they all said the .22 mag shot cartridge killed snakes better than any other commercial shot cartridge. Again, #12 shot, but much more of it.

So a friend and I went halves on a set of RCBS .45 ACP dies for making shot cartridges out of .308 brass. And when loaded with #11 or #12 shot, it was the hammer of Thor on snakes; even big diamondbacks. We then used that same set of dies to make .45 Colt shot cartridges out of .303 brass, which allowed us to extend the brass out to the distance of a seated bullet, which means you can hold a LOT of shot. OMG it just blew snakes into pieces...again with #12 shot.

Since the .303 brass thing took a good deal of work, and the case mouths 9 times out of 10 would split upon firing, I decided to see if there was an easier way. So I just loaded up to the end of the case with shot. Charge powder, seat a gas check with the cup facing up down against the powder being careful not to compress the powder. Now take the round, scoop up the shot and shake off the excess, then cap with a gas check with the cup facing down, and then roll crimp the gas check in place. Be subtle on the roll crimp or it will buckle the gas check...have to fiddle a little to get it right, but it's not tough.

That load was 90% as good as the extended cartridges made from the .303 brass, and was easy-peasy to make. So I let him have the dies and I didn't bother with the extended cartridges anymore. When I need some .45 ACP shot rounds, I just call him up and have him send me a dozen.

So what I learned; most any handgun (typically revolver) cartridge can be turned into a very efficient snake killer with the above listed method. Obviously the larger you go, the more dramatic the performance. .45 Colt was very impressive, but .32 H&R was no slouch by any means. Most times one shot is all you need when you use #12 shot.

So you noticed you can't ever find #12 shot; not surprised. The only place I've found to get it is Ballistic Products: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

The last bag I bought was over 15 years ago and it tends to last decades. IIRC they come in 12lb bags, and I'd still be using mine if I didn't lose it when I moved (it's there somewhere).

#12 shot only comes in those 12lb bags, and gas checks only come in 1,000 boxes; so the initial investment is a little stiff, but you have a near lifetime supply.

I could have sworn that I posted this earlier, but I don't see it where I thought it would be - so here goes.

Box o' Truth on the Judge....

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot53.htm

The thing about using these Box o' Truth reports is that it's the same guys using the same methods with the same materials to compare various guns and loads. I think it's better than plucking various Youtube videos from various sources using various materials and methods, to compare various loads or guns.

As a collection, the B o' T reports don't support the idea of .410 handguns for home defense.

What is continuously amazing is that there is so much resistance to this in certain circles. IMO, post your reasoning as to why .410 handguns are not good for what you think they're not good for and let folks make their own choices.

K, where did you get your homemade shot shell recipes? I am interested in reloading for a few different calibers

I hate agreeing with Kevin but I did think Whitworth was being a little hard on enduro's when he wrote that...



Travis

I posted several links with some good information. My reasoning is an accumulation of the info from those and other sources. You can read the same stuff - and if you come to a different conclusion, there is probably nothing I can say to change your mind.

It's funny that those "certain circles" you vaguely mention are full of people who are pretty accomplished and knowledgeable shooters and defense instructors. Forty years ago, I might have agreed that the body of knowledge is limited and suspect - but not now.

Make sense?

Yeah, actually makes perfect sense.....never thought about weighing the shot and loading it like a bullet

Thanks

Honestly, I haven't looked at the links because I read everything there was to read on this subject several years back. That is not to be disrespectful of what they're saying. I've read a bit of the box o' truth's stuff on .410's and know that particular site doesn't favor them. You can generate "evidence" to support the other side too. Also there are other experienced shooters who like the concept. I'm probably the single most experienced shooter here when it comes to this concept. Anybody who doesn't believe it can do a search or simply disbelieve it. My take on the whole thing is this:

Doesn't matter about the concept, the basic Judge (I can't speak to every single variant) isn't reliable so the concept doesn't matter. It may be the design but my opinion is that it's the execution. Whatever it is, it is unreliable.

As to the Governor, it is reliable but my experience with it isn't as great as the Judge. But now we can get to the concept. The 45 part of the equation is fine and is surprisingly more accurate than one would expect given the 410 chambers. It is fine at typical self defense ranges. The 410 side is more iffy. With specialty loads designed for 410 handguns specifically, the guns pattern adequately at self defense ranges. With standard 410 loads, the individual load must be judged on its own merit. Collectively, the standard loads are not impressive at all.

I'll take real-world results over lab ones any day. That doesn't mean I totally discount lab results, it means that I think real world ones are in the main, more representative. IIRC there are a couple of instances of self-defense on record with these guns. I'll leave that to others to check on though. If you can believe the bit about the hog's head, I've been around enough hogs to know that a hog's head is tougher and more resistant to penetration than a human's is, unless you're talking a liberal. So anything that penetrates a hog head will definitely penetrate a human skull. To me this trumps talk of velocity and chronographs, etc.

The Judge isn't a worthy choice for anything much. The Governor is fine if you like the concept.

Okay, okay, bad analogy! How about this. The Governor is much like the Taurus Judge -- .410 and .45 Colt capable. It can do both, but neither well. Is that better?