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Throwing out the XL Vectors with the $5K++ price tags, which is best the Swaro, Zeiss, or Leica? What are the pros/cons and how do they compare?

Sick of carrying both my SLC and LRF.

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I like the Leicas the best

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Me likey the Swaros. They are simply a delight.

I'm not interested in the ballistics stuff of the Leicas, nor their history of warranty issues.

The Zeiss are just ok.

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have the older leica geovids. Excellent glass, and ranging capabilities. Use them several days a week to hunt coyotes. No complaints.

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Love my leica's that are 7-8 years old. I'm sure all of the current offerings from the big 3 are better than what I have.

if I were buying today I'd look hard at the zeiss 10x45 but then again most of my optics are turning out to be zeiss these days

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Originally Posted by atse
have the older leica geovids. Excellent glass, and ranging capabilities. Use them several days a week to hunt coyotes. No complaints.

8x to 12x, or the 10x to 15x?

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Talked to leica andswaro customer service about the optics in the rangefinder binocs. I asked if the optics were as good as in the non rf binocs of both companys. Both techs said there is no way to have as good as optics in the rf models as non rf because you compromise the sweet spot in the binocs field of view. I had the leica hd b and was continually defining distant objects better with my older 10x42 swaro. The tech said he had no trouble beleiving this to be the case. Just something to keep in mind if it matters .


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There is simply no way I'd drop that kind of coin again on glass without a warranty and customer service like Swarovski.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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The swaro I had required a minimum range of approx 33yards to work. These were the initial release, may have been changed by now? If use is bow, this could be issue for you. Have both 10x42and15x56leica with no complaints. Many would not like the 15x due to smaller fov.

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I spent a lot of time and money on these binoculars and have come to my conclusions over 2 years of use in the field and not 10 minutes in a sporting goods store looking at grids. I am first a fan of Swarovski due to their quality and acceptance by the everyday hunter.

Swarovski is the best optical company when you compare all aspects of product, use and customer service. Leica makes some top tier stuff as well, but lacks the backing of the consumer and the Leica company to some extent. Zeiss is another great company, their customer service is excellent as well. I don't think Zeiss has really gotten the whole rangefinder concept down as well as Leica or Swarovski in either the binocular or just the LRF.

I have had every Geovid, from the very first, which were state of the art when they arrived, but technology as left them in the dust. The later Geovids were much better, but they still weren't what the new HD-B generation is.

Some people don't understand that the binocular in a rangefinding binocular, just isn't the same glass and quality of optics that exist in their mainstream binoculars. They have come a long way, but they still aren't Ultravid or Swarovision optical quality in the rangefinder.

I had the later version of the Geovids after they came out, but still was happier with the rangefinder in a separate package and used the Swarovski rangefinder and EL binoculars. They were even better when Swarovski came out with the Swarovision in their binoculars, I had the best of both worlds.

When Swarovski came out with the rangefinding EL's I decided to give them a try. They were a bit bulky with the lumps under the barrels but they were great glass and the rangefinding capabilities out-performed the Swarovski LRF. The optics were not Swarovision, however. It was a matter of sacrificing something to gain an advantage somewhere else, by having everything in one package.

When Leica announced the new HD-B, I got a pair of them, knowing I could still sell them if I didn't like them as they were so hard to come by, everybody wanted them. I still have them and would rate them better than the Swarovski overall, but they still have become about as big as a person could really tolerate to use in the field.


Their optics are excellent and the rangefinding capabilities are better than the Swarovski. We do have to realize also that the rangefinding EL is now several years old and Swarovski has to be working on producing something better than the HD-B. The HD-B has Perger Porro-Prism integrated into the binocular which is an improvement to the roof prisms that have become so popular in hunting binoculars. That is the reason for the sweeping look of the barrels of the Leica.

After a day outdoors with the HD-B and comparing them to the optics of the Swarovski 8X32 EL Swarovision, I almost considered selling the HD-B and going back to the Swarovski LRF in a separate package, the view is that good in the Swarovision and this was in the smaller 8X32 size.

Optics will keep on improving, they just won't get cheaper. My analysis of these optics is owning them and using them for years. Everyone has what they like and that is what choice is all about. The question is what is the best on the market below the Vectors, and I would stand firmly behind the Leica HD-B for now...

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Leica hands down. Great ranging capabilitys the best ergos and the choice of using the ballistic stuff if one chooses to utilize it. I love my HD-B.

Also wanted to add I have owned the swaro EL ranges and both HD and non HD Geovids. No experience with the Zeiss at all.

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I had leica hd b.. Went back to stand alone leica 1600 b and my swaro binocs. I just refuse to sacrifice optics quality for rangefinding even as convenient as it is to have both in one unit. For less demanding viewing i could make a combo work.


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Originally Posted by foogle
I had leica hd b.. Went back to stand alone leica 1600 b and my swaro binocs. I just refuse to sacrifice optics quality for rangefinding even as convenient as it is to have both in one unit. For less demanding viewing i could make a combo work.


That's pretty much my opinion as well having used the Lieca too... not to mention the expense, size, complication of having an all-in-one unit that can fail. Electronics can and do fail.

Keeping them separate is KISS.


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Thanks everybody for the input/opinions. Shrapnel - I was hoping for such an experienced/detailed comparison, but didn't think I'd get it - Thanks. I really appreciate the time you took to jot all that down.

I found out yesterday I won a pair of new Swaro EL 10X42s from the B&C club (didn't even know I was in any kind of contest until they sent me an email).

What to do? I might just have to keep these ELs as I've used them before and they are terrific.

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Keep the ELs and buy an LRF.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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and for economy, how's the Bushnell fusions?


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Seriously, you can do a lot with the LRF and binoculars in a separate package, as I mentioned, I too would consider going back to binoculars and LRF. I have the HD-B now, so I will continue to use them, but I also have a Leica CRF and my Swarovision EL's and they are keepers for certain...


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Originally Posted by shrapnel


I spent a lot of time and money on these binoculars and have come to my conclusions over 2 years of use in the field and not 10 minutes in a sporting goods store looking at grids. I am first a fan of Swarovski due to their quality and acceptance by the everyday hunter.

Swarovski is the best optical company when you compare all aspects of product, use and customer service. Leica makes some top tier stuff as well, but lacks the backing of the consumer and the Leica company to some extent. Zeiss is another great company, their customer service is excellent as well. I don't think Zeiss has really gotten the whole rangefinder concept down as well as Leica or Swarovski in either the binocular or just the LRF.

I have had every Geovid, from the very first, which were state of the art when they arrived, but technology as left them in the dust. The later Geovids were much better, but they still weren't what the new HD-B generation is.

Some people don't understand that the binocular in a rangefinding binocular, just isn't the same glass and quality of optics that exist in their mainstream binoculars. They have come a long way, but they still aren't Ultravid or Swarovision optical quality in the rangefinder.

I had the later version of the Geovids after they came out, but still was happier with the rangefinder in a separate package and used the Swarovski rangefinder and EL binoculars. They were even better when Swarovski came out with the Swarovision in their binoculars, I had the best of both worlds.

When Swarovski came out with the rangefinding EL's I decided to give them a try. They were a bit bulky with the lumps under the barrels but they were great glass and the rangefinding capabilities out-performed the Swarovski LRF. The optics were not Swarovision, however. It was a matter of sacrificing something to gain an advantage somewhere else, by having everything in one package.

When Leica announced the new HD-B, I got a pair of them, knowing I could still sell them if I didn't like them as they were so hard to come by, everybody wanted them. I still have them and would rate them better than the Swarovski overall, but they still have become about as big as a person could really tolerate to use in the field.


Their optics are excellent and the rangefinding capabilities are better than the Swarovski. We do have to realize also that the rangefinding EL is now several years old and Swarovski has to be working on producing something better than the HD-B. The HD-B has Perger Porro-Prism integrated into the binocular which is an improvement to the roof prisms that have become so popular in hunting binoculars. That is the reason for the sweeping look of the barrels of the Leica.

After a day outdoors with the HD-B and comparing them to the optics of the Swarovski 8X32 EL Swarovision, I almost considered selling the HD-B and going back to the Swarovski LRF in a separate package, the view is that good in the Swarovision and this was in the smaller 8X32 size.

Optics will keep on improving, they just won't get cheaper. My analysis of these optics is owning them and using them for years. Everyone has what they like and that is what choice is all about. The question is what is the best on the market below the Vectors, and I would stand firmly behind the Leica HD-B for now...

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Thanks for an excellent report, Shrapnel.

I have the Zeiss Victory 8x45 T* RF. The range finder will read targets out to 1,500-1,600 yds with repeatable accruacy. The glass is good, just doesn't have the WOW factory of top end Swaros. In some ways, I'd like to have premier Swaro glass and a separate RF, but like the quickness of ranging with RF binocs. So, I guess everything is a trade off, one way or another.

I have an older set of Swaro 7x50 binocs that seem to me to have better glass than the Zeiss Victory. Those are pretty heavy. The Zeiss 8x45 binocs are fairly bulky, but not overly heavy. I can wear them on my chest with bino harness and not realize they're there. So, for now, I'll stay with the Zeiss, but always appreciate reviews of other options.

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Originally Posted by David_Walter
and for economy, how's the Bushnell fusions?


Optics are mid-grade or maybe a bit better, and the RF is truly excellent. Bang for buck quotient is high on this one.

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Run as fast as your legs can propel you from the fusions 3 pairs in 5 weeks all had problems, this is for the one mile version.

Two other fellas, one very well known and respected had the same experience I did with multiple pairs. Between the two of us I think we had 5-6 pairs and all had issues. The quality is so poor it's not worth 80% less then they sell for.


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