Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics How fancy a binocular do I really need?

Not to step on anyone's toes but .....


I think the issue here is when the discussion switches from a comparison of companies versus a comparison of country of origin.

If Brad's previously posted sentiment were true then optics such as the Vortex Razor spotting scope, the Nikon ED 50 spotting scope and the Nikon Monarch 7 binoculars would have to be included in that statement. In my experience, none of those optics are "poor quality"....and that was just a few of the more common ones.

Frank about all these threads mean to me(they accomplish utterly nothing),is that people have a lot more choices among quality optics today than they did "X" years back (pick a number).

So, personally I have no quarrel with how and on what a man spends his money, but this is not really true of many I see on here discussing the matter. Many remind me of Democrats and love to wail to the heavens, suffering acutely, it seems,from class envy....

As soon as they see someone spending more than they can, or will,on an item,the discussion about the item stops and the ad hominem attacks commence.

Frank, mine is just a small play on the image, ie the Chinese philosopher in the poster. Just a small joke, really.

Here's one that may be more to your liking...

Uhh...Yes it does. Look at the way you guys press the "merits". They are your merits, not somebody else's. Nobody can post about not needing a fancy binocular without this discussion coming out. You seem to think there are no merits outside $2,000 glass.

If you like the expensive stuff, fine. There is no need in today's optics world to spend over $500. But need and want seem to have differrent trajectories. You can even do that and stay away from Confucius land.

Ever own any alpha bins? Hunted with them?

If there were no differences, at all,between various optics in various price brackets, objective folks like Mule Deer would not have charts rating what you can, and cannot see, through them,and under what conditions.

Also, some people who have owned and used both extensively would not tell you very firmly, that there are differences...and spend the money for the higher priced spread.

If what you say is true,then the guy who spent $2k on a Zeiss,would look through a $300 leupold, or Pentax,or whatever,decide he had been taken for a ride,and soon Zeiss would not exist as a company....right? In other words,the market place would even out the inequality

So, no, the differences are not subjective..you might not see
them; but this doesn't mean no one else does.

I don't recall anybody saying there are no merits outside of $2000 glass....that's your spin on it to attempt to prove your point.

Resolution, pure and simple, is where Alpha's shine.

I've never seen a non-alpha that resolved detail as well as The Big Four (Leica, Zeiss, Swaro, Top-End Nikon).

But I will confess I haven't spent any time behind Meopta's, something I intend to rectify.

Yup.

This is one of the best posts ever made on the optics forums IMHO. I own, or have owned many different "alpha" products FWIW.......

I guess BobinNH missed that one.

A few years ago Sue wanted a new car. I asked her to close her eyes and I would take her to check on a car. We were driving a two or three year old Toyota Camry. She cooperated. I sat her in a Cadillac and then back in the Camry. She said,
"I like this seat better." Cheapest new car I ever bought.

Whenever I see the word "fancy" in the optics forum, I pretty much know how quickly the thread will deteriorate.

This is a comical topic. I can still hear the echoes in the canyon from many years back. Oh that is Japanese junkjunkjunk. Now ya don't hear anyone bad mouthing Japanese products anymore do ya? Take a deep seat boys. As there are Americans that own companies in China. And are baby sitting them (quality control). And optics there are getting better in leaps and bounds. One of the main reasons is polishing compounds. While we are worrying about what is in them they are polishing away, and coating away. And will get a fine product, simply because all the big dogs were using the same compounds at one time. Economics will dictate that if they don't care if these compounds are dangerous. Buyers won't care either. Especially when the results are close to the alphas.


Take care, Willie

Everything you level at me there can be aimed right back at you.

Yes I have and use an alpha. You might not consider it so but I consider the view from and the construction of my Leupold Gold Ring HD to be in the top 10% of any binoculars. Now have you ever hunted with or owned...say a ZEN Prime HD? Any other mid price glass?

If the alpha were as good as you make out there would not be a bunch of companies from Alpen to Zen Ray doing the business they are.

There are people I know who will tell you very firmly that if they had any idea of what they could have got with the money, they would not have spent what they did. That works both ways too.

I also have never said I can't see the differences, I have said numerous times, but need to repeat it here, the difference I see is not enough to coax the $$ out of me. I have been on the verge several times of buying what you would consider a true alpha glass and simply did not see the justification. I have had all of them in the field, and I have more hours behind glass under conditions you can only guess about.

I simply see your post as your spin to prove your point

All of the tales of...back 20, 30, 40 years ago I bought an alpha and never regretted it. Back then there was essentially no mid price competition of the level we have today. That unquestioned level of superiority that existed then is not so much now.

Now, you were the one who dragged John Barsness in here. So after the fact why don't you try going over the thread here and reading what he actually did post here, in this thread...several times.

Brad,

No harm no foul. I wasn't singling you out specifically except your previous post had China in it so it was a good place to start my comments. :-)

Bob,

I don't think we are necessarily on different pages here. I understand where you are coming from with the class envy comment. I think I see where you can perceive Steve's comments, for example, in that manner. On the other hand, Steve' past comments (other threads) about a "newbie" coming on asking about what glass to buy and a dozen folks coming on and saying "save up for an Z, S, or L" could also be perceived as a elitist from a certain perspective.

I am not saying either is right.

Here is what I can say. I know Steve pretty well. He and I have been exchanging emails/private messages and posts on various forums for a good number of years now. We have even sent each other various binoculars to try out for evaluation purposes. I would consider that pretty trusting considering we have never met and we live on two opposite ends of the country.

He and I tend to share the same opinions on the various optics we review. I know for a fact that, at the moment, he has more mid-priced models on hand than I do. I also know that, if he wanted to, he could easily afford at least one or two of the Big Three if he should choose. The reason he chooses not to (if I may speak for him for a moment) is because he does not see the need to spend that much money on an optic. Optics in the mid-priced points are just "that good" these days.

As for me, I make no attempt to hide the fact that I cannot afford an L, S or Z right now. There was a time that I could and did own many of those models. If I do a little digging I am sure I can find my comparative threads on here and other forums where I reviewed all three of the top 7x42s available at the time. I have also owned many of the 8x32 alpha models and one 8.5x42 as well. I have owned every configuration of original Meopta Meostar lineup. I have owned Nikon SEs and E IIs. I have also owned an uncountable number of mid and low price level binoculars from a variety of different manufacturers and countries.

As someone who does not really have a stake in this one way or another my opinion is fairly simple. On the one hand many mid and even relatively inexpensively priced binoculars have become so good optically and mechanically that there really isn't much of a reason for a majority of individuals to look much farther to meet their needs. On the other hand there is still something to be said for the most expensive binoculars from the various European and Japanese manufacturers. They are almost always cutting edge in design with excellent build quality.

I guess what I would like to see is both sides of the discussion accept the fact that the other side does have a valid opinion on the subject.

Frank,

Thanks for the thought. I will add no modifiers to your basic sentiment.

I am pleased with my Zen-Ray HD Prime 10x42. The only problem I have had with mine was the rubber eye cup cover came off one side. Optically they are great and I get complements from everyone who looks through them.

Well said Frank and I totally agree on your last sentence.

Yes, these threads typically have a tendency to get heated, no doubt. My observation is as follows:

-Advancements by the non-alpha producers are narrowing the "gap".
-Build quality/longevity is hard to measure near term - i.e. the new makers will have to prove themselves out over time
-Those that generally don't support buying an Alpha generally can't afford one, and therefore stay strong in their convictions and quite frankly visa versa.
-There is a difference IMO, Alpha is higher quality, again, whether it's worth it to you tends to depend on your financial situation but don't judge those you can make this purchase.

I guess what I dont get is the guys that go out and buy every mid price range bin on the market so they can tell us how they are almost as good as the more expensive stuff, WTF? buy a pair of top end 10's and some 15's and end the mental masturbation.

If your job is to review optics then I get it, otherwise it makes no sense to me.

I do agree that the mid range stuff is pretty nice, my zeiss classics that i kept in my truck full time came up missing last fall. I replaced them with Zeiss Terra ED's and am pretty impressed with them.

Some of the "alpha" buyers don't just buy once/cry once though. Every time their favorite company makes some minor improvement, their previous "alpha" bino winds up in the classified section (or sold to a friend). Then we get to hear how the new and improved version is so vastly superior to last years model.