Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires $1000 .22's - Lets dream a little here, What's your pick?

Kimber SVT awsome

$1,000 or less? CZ's are tough to beat (and you could get two), Remington 541s, Winchester 75 sporter, Remington 513S, I paid $900 for a Anschutz 1710 ( ), maybe a Kleinguenter (found one of those for $350), hell many of the older Mossbergs will shoot great as well and the "higher" end ones have adjustable triggers, Mauser 350s (if you can find one).....there are a bunch of them that fit your criteria. I even have a Norinco JW-15 (a BRNO/CZ copy) that will shoot with most of my more accurate .22s and I paid $150 for that one! Good luck good/accurate .22s are addicting!!

PennDog

For a carry gun I would acquire an Winchester 63 with a grooved receiver.
I like the 52's , have several Jap and original sporters , but they are clunkers when it comes to carrying them.
Just another option.

Guns like this are not just about practical shooting. I am sure centershot already has his share of good practical guns.

This question is about getting something nice. Pride of ownership beyond pulling the trigger. The FinnFire II sounds interesting. I like the looks (metal work) of the Browning T bolt. But Browning is not meeting the fancy wood. No tinkering and full $1000 budget. Not $450. And 1 moa accurate. Not 1/2 MOA or better just MOA. Not a project.

This is a great learning thread for me. I am now in the market for an upgrade. I think I know exactly where Centershot is coming from.

I dont see nice wood on the Kimber SVT? And it is not a rim fire. I dont find any rim fire Kimber on the website.

Bluing reliably rusts and Walnut gets beat to schit. One KNOWS those things going in.

I'll happily rattle-can things in a moments notice,as I could really give a schit. The warm/fuzzy is found in balance/handling,Precision and erector tracking. Conjoin those things with the ability to see trace/impact,along with bolstering wind reading abilities and if one ain't careful,he'll be having FUN before he knows it. Hint.

Not sure where the day is gonna take me,but will have a few Anschutz in the crummy,along with the POS [bleep] CZ Hummer,which actually held together yesterday,in new rings and a glass swap.



Got the video camera charging,coffee brewing and crummy warming up...so will mebbe get some LR Annie 54 footage for the dissenters.(grin) You can 'bout take a piss after you break the trigger,while awaiting 600yd impact and not miss nothin'. Stock/caera adapter,do nice thangs.





Should throw a couple/few dozen 22LR's in the crummy one day and do The Show Case Showdown.

My money is on an Anschutz 54.

Hint.(grin)

Lock time is a combination of a couple things. First there is TRIGGER LOCK TIME, that is the time from when the trigger is released until the sear releases. Generally most folks think that as soon as the trigger is pulled the sear releases but that is not true with all triggers. For instance a 3-lever trigger, which many bench type rifles use, has a slower lock time than a conventional direct pull trigger which releases the sear as soon as it is pulled. A set trigger also is slower than a direct pull trigger because it has a "fly" lever to trip the set function, this in turn slows down the lock time.

Then there is BOLT(FIRING PIN) LOCK TIME. It is determined by the mass that moves which includes the sear portion of the bolt and the firing pin. In some cases it can be made faster by a stronger spring to help move the mass faster but this in itself can cause problems because it slams into the cartridge with more impact sometimes causing upsetting vibrations to the rifle.

If you look at the Anschutz 64 action you will see a large cocking piece and if you take it apart you will see a relatively large firing pin also. Both of these thing contribute to a slow lock time.

I do not have the equipment to measure lock time but in looking at the CZ 452, it has a cocking piece (firing pin) that actually has less mass than a 64 action and it has a direct action trigger. So logic would suggest that unless there is significant difference in spring rates the CZ 452 is likely a bit faster.

Off the bench, with good technique, lock time is less of an issue than it is when shooting off-hand. When shooting off-hand we are all constantly moving and if the rifle goes "bang" a little quicker there is a better chance of hitting what one is shooting.

Personal experience - back in the dark ages when I first began shooting smallbore silhouette the first dedicated rifle available was the Anschutz 64MS, I became guite proficient with it - slow lock time and all. Eventually I purchased an Anschutz 54MS and guess what - my scores fell. Why because I was used to the slower lock time of the 64 and the faster lock time of the 54 was causing edge misses because I was used to mentally compensating for the slow lock time of the 64. After a couple of matches and getting used to the faster lock time of the 54 my scores came back and then increased.

As far as the 54 having the fastest lock time - Maybe but I doubt it. As far as I know the fastest lock time on a commonly available 22 rifle is the Remington 580 and 541 series rifles. The firing pin is nothing more that a piece of stamped sheet metal driven by a fairly stout spring. Quite a few top-end silhouette competitors use them as competition rifles rather than Anschutz because of the fast lock time. Admittedly most are modified to accept an Anschutz trigger, for its adjustability and crispness, and of course they are rebarreled and restocked. They are a purpose driven rifle but in an off-hand competition where a couple of milli-seconds is the difference between a hit and a miss having just a bit faster lock time can be the difference, all other things being equal.

Sorry for the long dissertation but that was no short way to say this.

In looking at your original post - give the criteria you laid out I would take a look a the following rifles -

1- Save your money and find a used 54 action sporter ($1000+)

2- used Remington 541 Sporter but be sure that it is the model that has 2 action screws, not all of them did, also be sure that it has the 3 screw adjustable trigger, not all of them did. caveat - the plastic magazines on these can be problematic and the 5 round ones are all but impossible to find. ($450 - $650)

3- New or used CZ 452 or 453 if you want the set trigger. ($500)

4- used 64 actioned Anschutz ($500- $600. Yes, they are out there for that price. About 2 months ago I was in a gunshop in Albuquerque and they had an absolutely late 70's one with a Leupold 2x7 rimfire scope for $650.

5- If you do decide on the Anschutz most of the sporters have a roll-over cheekpiece and quite a bit of drop at the heel,be sure to see if that stock design works for you before laying your money down. Myself I don't care for it, I am more in the classic style stock camp.

Good luck - sometimes the search is the best part of the journey.


drover

I see several nice old Savage Anschutz 54 sporters selling reasonable online. I may go that route. I do notice, taste have changes in stocks and bbl lengths.

I love my old XXII wby, but I would not buy a gun looking like that today. And even back then, I had mixed feeling opting for quality over my styling preferences.

For me, that disqualifies a rifle for hunting or woods loafing. If, for instance, you're hunting on public land and encounter a warden that wants to check your license, common sense and courtesy, if not the law, dictate that you open the action and if possible, set the rifle down. Could get a little awkward trying to explain why you have to fire your rifle. There are other field situations that require you to unload. You can't go cracking off a round every time you cross a fence or ditch.
Everybody wants an accurate rifle, but for practical purposes, MOA accuracy is plenty in a .22 for field use, which seems to be what the OP was looking for.
One more discontinued model to look for that that meets the OP's requirements is the Browning A-Bolt .22. Good looking guns that have a good rep and go for around $750 or so on GB.

Anschutz has made the claim of the fastest lock time for numerous years. Depending on the exact 54 model, its in the 1.4 - 1.7 ms range. Not sure about the 541 or 580. People claim they are faster but I've never seen an actual number. I thought they were closer to 2.4 ms. Anything around or below 2 ms is fast though.

Lock time is always important, but you're right... its even more important Offhand than Rested.

You also briefly mentioned the affect of the firing assembly inertia upsetting the rifle. I think this important, along with the lock time.

Been playing with a S&W 41 the past week or so. Compared to most other 22lr handguns, the trigger isn't the only thing that stands out. There is very little movement of the pistol when dry firing. I have no idea what the lock time is on the 41, but its got two things nailed... good trigger, and very little movement after the firing mechanism is released.

Jason

The Savage/Anschutz sporters had a slightly slimmer barrel that the current 54 sporters but the ones I have shot seem to shoot as well as current iterations.

Interestingly in the late 60's - early 70's both Savage and Anschutz were looking for foreign sales so Savage imported the Anschutz marked Savage/Anschutz and Anschutz imported Savages to Europe for sale there. The association lasted a few years and as a consequence there are quite a few Anschutz around marked as Savage/Anschutz. There is no quality difference between the ones marked Savage/Anschutz or simply Anschutz. About 30 years ago I owned a Savage 22/250 that was factory stocked exactly like the Anschutz sporter with roll over cheekpiece, and the checkering pattern was even the same. That was the only one I have ever seen like that, I regret letting it get away since I suspect it may have been one of the European Savages sold by Anschutz.

drover

Bargains are out there. I have found two Savage/Anschutz Sporters in the last two years. One for $650 the other for $900. I love the actions and just think that the stocks are too gaudy... If I could find one with a Classic piece of wood on it I would probably buy it and keep it. There was a .22 Magnum on GunBroker a few months ago I thought about and it finally sold for $1350.00.

Last year I did luck into a very nice Kimber 22. It has a very dark straight grain stock and matte finished metal...just what I liked...price was $700 with a crappy scope. Could not ask anything more from a gun...and is extremely accurate.

Here is a nice Kimber from GunBroker...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=403488360

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=404912534

...and a Magnum...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=404934452


One of the reasons I like the Kimber is the Classic stocks comb is high enough for scope use. I have had both the Browning and Winchester 52s and sold both to friends as the high bolt throw requires high rings which makes things even worse.

CZs however are as has been said one of the great values in a .22... I have several, the most recent a 452 Varmint .22 Magnum bought off GunBroker for $450.00. Someone worked over the trigger as it breaks like a glass rod...and so far very accurate. My favorite is the 452 American 17" threaded...just so handy and nicely balanced for field work...I need to get a decnt trigger into it.

Good luck in your quest...Bob

...a bargain...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=404936440

I also have been unable to find any reliable numbers on rimfire locktimes. I have SB silhouette rifles built on Anschutz 54's and Remington 541/580 series and too me the 541/580 series have a faster locktime feel to me.

Per Otteson's book The Bolt Action Rifle, which lists lock times for centerfire rifles, the Remington 788 has the second fastest cernterfire bolt action locktime at 2.2 ms the fastest locktime listed is 2/0 ms. Interpolating that into the fact that the 788 is the larger centerfire version or the 541/580 series rimfires it is not a huge leap to assume that the rimfire will have a much faster locktime given its smaller, lighter firing pin and less distance to travel prior to impact.

I have seen a magazine article that cites the Anschutz 54 as having a 1.7ms lock time but nothing "official". But certainly it is within the realm or reason that it would be in that range.
Looking at the 54 action firing pin and spring along side the 541/580 the 541/580 series should be faster given their less mass.

In Otteson's book there is a formula for calculating locktime but it looks to me as though it would take an advanced degree in math, I am still having problems with 2+2 so I will go with my sense of speed.

A couple of links here to show we are not the only ones who have an interest in locktime comparisons between these two rifles.

http://gunnerforum.com/range-reports/12584-tale-two-sporters.html

http://forums.steelchickens.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6042

As an aside - the centerfire Remington 788 and the Remington 541/580 series rifles were built on the same machine, it was simply reconfigured depending on which action they were producing on it.

drover

Need a TriggerScan to split hairs further, but those mentioned... 788/54x/58x and 54 are all fast. I think the 788 numbers are often quoted for the 54x/58x since they are similar as you noted... and where the 2.4 ms comes from. Makes sense that the rimfires could be faster.

A Rem 700 with Ti is pretty dang fast too.

Jason

After reading about all the CZ hype I went out and bought one a while back. CZ455 FS in 22lr. Has a Timney trigger in it and is accurate as can be. But to be honest I like the feel of my M77/22 better. So much so that I may be trading my CZ off with a guy for another Ruger M77/22. The CZ shoots but it just feels too much like a 22 to me and the action can't touch my Ruger in terms of smoothness and feel. I will also give a vote for a sporter 54 and think it would be great to have it and a win 52 sporter, maybe after I get three kids through college I can start to look for a couple.

Wouldn't mind a 77/22 myself, in stainless. Especially when spending all day in the rain.

I got to fondle a stainless RSI not long ago. Not the best rain gun, maybe, but very well done and very nice. $719, I think.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/MARKIIBSEV

I know it falls well short of your $1k mark but with CCI Mini mags mine will do 5/8" at 100 yards. Granted conditions must be nice but it's sub Moa for me 90% of the time. I've never had any match grade ammo to put through it, but it loves mini mags and rem sub sonics.

I've got a SS in walnut and now as of today I have a blue and walnut too.

I have a 77/22 stainless boat paddle that I bought new - and it is this rifle that the new one has to 'outdo' or I will not be happy. I am starting to wonder if maybe the scope could be limiting the accuracy that I am getting or if honest 3/4" groups at 50 yards w/ high velocity ammo is about all any .22 rifle will do. I'm considering changing out the 2X7 Nikon Prostaff for a Leupold 2X7 Rimfire scope. I'm sure a 3X9 EFR would be better for target shooting, but this rifle spends most of it's time hunting and plinking - Thoughts on a quality scope?