Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Bush War

T Lee
<br>
<br>I have grown to respect your opinions on most any subject. That you and I believe alike on this question is special.
<br>
<br>How can we expect more from our government when maybe 15 % elect them and those that do are sucking hind tit and want more.
<br>
<br>As long as we expect more and more we are easily bought. Once bought most remain so.
<br>
<br>One thought bothers me. If I refuse to surrender my weapons and fight for them or the right to own them, the ones I will be fighting really will be some officer just doing his best on a poor job. Hell isn't it.
<br>
<br>On the trip to Wyoming I will be in Oklahoma, Kansas, New Mexico, Colorado, and maybe others. Who has reciprocal carry laws. What is necessary under a reciprocal carry?

Eddie,
<br>The question is covered in your instruction to get concealed carry. If you don't have CC now you won't have time to get it if you are going this year. -- no

eddieleon, Go to www.packing.org for the most recent info on reciprosity.
<br>
<br>Thanks for the compliment, many here feel as we do, that;s the nice part of this board.

I'm tired of Saddam and Iraq in general. Let loose the dogs of war!

I am tired of some of our politicians. Lets "Loose the Dogs of War" on them.
<br>
<br>Saddan is not a "Clear and Present Danger" to us at this time, this is more about "Wag the Dog" IMHO. The terrs are another matter, we need to finish with Afganistan and continue to hunt them world wide.

Bearstalker,
<br>Unfortunately it is exactly that train of thought on somebody else's part that got over 3000 people killed last year. The difference is they don't have the conventional military might to do things through normal methods, instead they chose terror. Either way they chose to "Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war." I'm not saying 9/11 was our fault, far from it. No nation gives as much to the world without asking for anything back as we do. No nation writes off as much debt in a year as we do. And no nation's people volunteer or donate as much to the unfortunate of the world as we do.
<br>
<br>Believe me, I am tired of Saddam also. He has done everything he can to flaunt the restrictions placed upon him in 1991. In doing so he has increased his own level of security and power while denying shipments of food and medicine to the general population of Iraq. But we have a moral responsibility to our men and women who will be placed in harm's way and their families. We must ensure this is being done for all the right reasons. We must provide for their security in the region by at least ensuring the neutrality of the rest of the area. We must provide for their capabilities and well-being by ensuring adequate supplies arrive and can be stockpiled in the region. And we must ensure they have the political and popular support of our nation.
<br>
<br>We went to war in 1990 with the memories of Viet Nam still lingering like a bad hangover. I live in a very liberal area and support for the war was low, the troops were supported, but not the war. In the end we exorcised the ghosts of the previous generation and were welcomed home as heros, the war was a "good" thing, a Martha Stewart kind of good thing. Between then and now our military has been deployed on more real world missions than the time period from Korea to the Gulf, and most of them have been both questionable in purpose and questionable in mission. The previous administration has reminded us that we may be the best in the world, but a rag-tag bunch of disorganized locals can set us on the defensive pretty fast.
<br>
<br>I would hope this administration has learned the lessons of his predecessor, not his father. First is focus, second is overwhelming power and third is end-state. If we go without any one of those we will not be doing justice to those who will die.
<br>
<br>Good Luck and have a great hunting season,
<br>Bob
<br>

Gunny_Bob,
<br>
<br>Well said sir, I love the smell of common sense in the morning, it smells like,...............
<br>fresh air!
<br>Good post sir, and good hunting to all as well. Post pic's, please.

T LEE,
<br>
<br>Are you saying we should wait until Saddam has the ability to kill another 3000+ Americans by the use of nucluer power? Why sit and wait to find out? I'd rather not take the risk, and those who live in the east coast shouldn't either! I'm tired of Saddam and his evil ways. I'd shoot him myself if the chance arose. He's been playing games for 10+ years now. Lock & Load time because we're moving in!

You delude yourself sir, Just to put it in perspective. We can not attack and invade Sovereign Nations at will, any more than you can do a Dynamic Entry on your neighbors house.
<br>
<br>As much as I might want to, just cause I don't like you or your opinions does not give me the right to break into your home and kick your a$$, even if I have the might to do it.
<br>

Bearstalker,
<br>In addition to the Sovieregn Nation issue there is a huge amount of diplomatic and economic effort we have not exercised during the past 11 years.
<br>
<br>The UN, under our request, created an embargo, but obeying and enforcing it are another issue. With much less effort than a war we could create and enforce a no BS blockade of Iraq. This would allow us to take the moral high ground, placate European and regional nations and force Saddam to make a decision; bow to the UN/US pressure to play nice or become the aggressor.
<br>
<br>This could negatively effect Abdullah Q. Public in Iraq so again the UN can take the moral high ground and introduce aid workers with armed escorts (the Pakistanis and Canadians seem to love these kinds of missions). Any attack upon the aid shipments would give us more strength and weaken Saddam.
<br>
<br>During this time we should, of course, continue prerarations for war. Can we afford to forward base VII Corps in Kuwait, the XVIII Airborne Corps in Turkey and a MEB or MEF in the Indian Ocean, not for long, but the amount of pressure this would exert should make Saddam backpedal. In addition we would be more likely to get allied nations to rotate their units through such a show of force.
<br>
<br>I agree that Saddam, left to his own devices, will eventually need to be dealt with, and if nobody is willing to take the hard line now it will only get worse as time goes on. But, I do not agree that war is the answer until we have exerted every ounce of diplomatic and economic pressure available to us. We should apply this pressure WHILE we prepare for war as we may win without firing a shot, the best form of victory.
<br>
<br>Appeasement was not the answer in the 1930's and it wouldn't be today, but war in 1937 would have been disastrous for Europe. Even Joe Stalin knew Russia didn't posses the might to check Germany in 1939 so he signed a Non-Aggression Pact.
<br>
<br>I think you and I see things much the same, I only want to see if we can get Saddam to back down. He is a very intelligent man and excells at brinksmanship, he also understands just what we are capable of doing to him once we put our minds to it. Apply the right pressure and we will get what we want.
<br>
<br>Good Luck again,
<br>Bob
<br>

Again, Bravo sir. I belive you made a direct hit once again. I feel this is the right way to go about it. I am not a weak kneed liberal, but age has taught me reason and restraint. I also belive it would cost much less in terms of men and material in the long run and still give the requisite results.
<br>
<br>A bloodlees war is the best kind of war.

I'm all for a war to protect the rights of Americans. That said, the biggest enemy we have is our own government. The U.N. is right up there too.
<br>
<br>Saddam is no more a threat now than he was in '91. The U.N. wouldn't let us do it then, and the only support we have for doing it now is Great Britain. Taking out Iraq makes Israel the big dog over there. Those A-rabs sure don't want that.
<br>
<br>Now granted, there is an awful lot I don't know about this situation. Yes, the whole region is a powder keg, and Saddam is a lit match. But why is it the U.S. that has got to clean up everybody elses mess?
<br>
<br>What ever happens here, if and when we make a move, this time it's all or nothing. No stopping halfway to Bahgdad, and no press giving away plans. To hell with photo-ops and niceties. Come down hard and come down fast. Maybe while we're over there, we should just flatten some other countries too. The only way to fight a war is "balls to the wall".
<br>7mm

The sins of the father have been visited upon the son. George Sr. had the opportunity to take out Saddam when the time was right. Gen. Schwartzkoff advised him to go all the way to Baghdad, but the President said no. The good general knew his history and preferred not to take on the most powerful man in the world as did Gen. MacArthur. Choosing to be a hero over getting fired, the general took the prudent course of action and backed off.
<br>
<br>After 9/11, George Jr. had the perfect opportunity to take out Saddam, and chose not to do it when the time was right. He chose not to atone for the sin of the father when he had the perfect opportunity. This whole matter is much bigger than Osama. We could have taken out the Taliban, and roamed the Afghan hills at a later point.
<br>
<br>Now the timing is all wrong to go after Iraq. If we wait for Saddam to do another stupid thing (and he will) we can pull it off and look good in the process. A contrived war now could lead to a Middle East quagmire, or worse, World War III.
<br>
<br>If Iraq doesn't do anything considered aggressive, the world remains with an uneasy peace. We have lived in this situation for many years. There are much worse things than an uneasy peace.
<br>
<br>If any of us are put in a position where we have nothing to lose by taking drastic action because we're backed into a corner, we're probably going to take that drastic action. If either Iraq or Israel are put in that position, all hell is going to break loose. TIMING IS EVERYTHING. Let's wait for the right time to strike, and pray that that right time never comes.

AMEN BROTHER!

Piss on this chicken livered wait. wait. BS. The table has been set, the forcast is clear to any thinking man. What will you say when NY, SF, WA, are hit with nuclear power or our water supplys for major cities are poisoned, major electrical systems destroyed. They have shown what they are capable of and intend to do. You sound like a bunch of kids, you hit me first. Well partners, in case you don't know it, fights and wars are won with the first blow. If they are not won many lives are lost. I'm a kick ass, get it done on my terns, don't have to ask the neighbors if it's all right to be a fair haired boy. War is war, never pretty or fun for anyone, no holds bared, kick , scratch, bite, whatever it takes, one winner. People die and hurt everywhere in war soldier and civilian, the trick is how few have to pay. We lost three thousand mothers and daddys to only nineteen fanatics. How many will we loose next time. A dirty bomb in NY and SF how many millions die? Everyone in government and leadership says it is coming again, will your love ones be next?
<br>Yes, I've had my nightcap,JMHO -- no

need one,
<br>
<br>Well said! Those who want to wait or hide behind the curtain don't want to realize what's happening in this world, even if it ain't pretty.

Guys,
<br>
<br>The following are my opinions, not necessarily that of the USAF, DoD, or US Government. I am also only relaying info I have obtained from non-classified sources.
<br>
<br>During the summer of 2000, I was stunned to learn we were still attacking Iraq. A press release available to all would come after each attack, but it just wasn't news then. We were up to something like 470 Iraqi incursions of the no-fly zone. At that time, we had been involved in this little war for 9 years. Sanctions were imposed in varying levels, inspectors were allowed in then denied, etc.
<br>
<br>Reagrdless of what happened, Saddam would use the events for his own political gain. The Iraqi people continued to suffer. I gurantee Saddam's quality of life wasn't impacted by the embargoes or attacks. Like the spineless dictator he is, he denied food, supplies, and medicine to his own people while keeping it for himself. He was able to generate much political capital out of this, twisting things so the blame for the difficult conditions the Iraqis were facing on the United States of America.
<br>
<br>No doubt he's continued to build his chem and biological warfare capability while desperately seeking nuclear weapons. It isn't hard to imagine him proactively supporting terrorism against the US--it fits his "character" and is very practical for him as well.
<br>
<br>There is a saying: "if always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got." It's time to do something different in Iraq. We don't have many good options at this point. However, an escalation of the operations in Iraq may well be our best choice. Don't forget, the war in the gulf never ended. It is still being conducted today. I think now is the time to finish it.
<br>
<br>Blaine

My .02 worth:
<br>
<br>I wasn't born nor raised in the US, but I got here as quickly as I could. I cherish the freedoms and liberty that I now have. They are not for sale and not to be bargained away by appearing to be weak and ineffective. I am not ashamed to say that I wept when the 9/11 attack occured and my heart swelled with pride when I saw DUBYA on the smoking ruins of the WTC and the response from 99.9% of Americans. I for one will stand up and be counted if the time comes. Shortly after the attack, a Canadian newspaper printed a story that basically outlined what/why/where/when the US assisted other nations in times of need-I can guarantee you that we'll never get the same treatment from anyone else short of Britain. In my humble opinion it's because we have, they don't and never will. Know why? The Bill of Rights that hundreds of thousands of Americans have died defending and am certain will continue. This grand country and those that believe in it will prevail. Of this I am sure. Godspeed to those that defend our nation and "wo' be unto those that threaten its survival".
<br>
<br>"Let's Roll".
<br>
<br>

Well I hate to see War come down the road, but it looks like it is going to happen sometime soon.
<br>
<br>My only take on the whole issue is the politicians should leave things up to the Generals in charge and give them a free hand to settle the BS that has been going on since the last confrontation. This whole war idea would have been over with when Gen. Swarts......took his men to the gates of Sadam's palace. If our politicians had not have given in to the other Arab contries request behind closed doors. Thank you Billy Boy Clinton!
<br>
<br>Sadam is an Arab and they do stick together whatever may come about, even though he might be the bad boy on the block the other Arabs seem to tolerate him. I don't feel that the Arab nations will side with the US and Great Britton on this war issue. We may end up fighting more Arabs than we thought we would.
<br>
<br>I have seen with my own eyes the effects of biological weapons at work. I have also seen the effects of Nuke Warfare in it's beginning stages on Japan. I don't want to have my kids having to wonder if this fanatic Sadam is going to try us with his Nukes..........WE ALL LOSE!
<br>I say, Saddle Up Let's Rock & Roll.......The best defense is always a good offense. Why wait? Those who hesitate are lost..............................It's a true fact of life.
<br>Looks like the real "Yank's are coming soon Sadam" Best you get the hell out of Dodge City buckaroo.
<br>
<br>I have plenty of powder stored up and many bullets too.
<br>It won't keep me from hunting the least little bit.
<br>

Deterrence and forward basing of combat units and supplies worked for over 40 years against a threat much greater than Iraq ever will be, and in the end we won. We can try this again, with greater ease and possibility of success and it gives us the ability to move on Iraq much faster than from where we are today.
<br>
<br>Many of you had your "ass in the grass" at one time or another and I can respect that. But unless you're going to be humping 3 60mm mortar rounds, a can of 7.62, your 50lb POS MOLLE pack and your personal weapon in ankle deep sand alongside me when we go your opinion is second to mine in my mind. I can respect that we don't want to lose another innocent life to terrorist scum, but it seems rather Clintonesque to want the military to solve problems more easily handled by other means.
<br>
<br>When my unit is activated I will go. Not because I want to, but because it is the right thing to do. I will do as I have been trained, lead my Marines in combat and coordinate air and indirect fires for the company. But if we blow our load prematurely, if we create more hatred than we resolve and turn the entire middle east fully against us I will be the first to say "I told you so" (probably as I call in another Final Protective Fire).
<br>
<br>Good Luck all,
<br>Bob
<br>