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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So, how do you draw the lines on a financial basis, which is at base your problem, and NOT exclude individuals of incredible wealth, and how do you include them without violating the 1st and 14th Amendments?
How do you restrict corporations of "means" without restricting the smallest community, sportmen's, conservation, etc., groups?
Simply put: you can't. That's why the First Amendment is there in the first place. Simply put, I don't know; but I won't accept you can't, because that's just giving America over to corporations and will eventually be our fall. The issue needs SERIOUS study, and I doubt we'll get it right the first or even second attempt. But it has to be done, or our goose is cooked. Again, look at what Wall Street just did to us; and I guaran-freakin-tee you they'll do it again.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Because you have the loudest voice, doesn't mean you're right. That's the situation; corporations have the loudest voice and are in a position to monopolize the entire political process.
Look at the melt down of 2008. When it all came down, Wall Street went to congress and even said, we have to be regulated. As soon as they got their trillion, they fought all regulation. They allowed Dodd-Frank to pass as a diversion; but it didn't correct ANY of the core issues that brought about a collapse. This is a sector that can literally bankrupt America, but they have the power to make sure nothing hinders them in any way. That's not in the best interest of anyone but Wall Street. But the current situation is such that they can just contribute to politicians as much as needed to get their way, or contribute to their opponents to push anyone who doesn't do their bidding out of office. How is this good for America? These ARE the un-principled, and they're running rough shod over all of America. That has nothing to do with corporations and everything to do with the abject corruption of government. THAT is fixable.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
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Because you have the loudest voice, doesn't mean you're right. That's the situation; corporations have the loudest voice and are in a position to monopolize the entire political process.
Look at the melt down of 2008. When it all came down, Wall Street went to congress and even said, we have to be regulated. As soon as they got their trillion, they fought all regulation. They allowed Dodd-Frank to pass as a diversion; but it didn't correct ANY of the core issues that brought about a collapse. This is a sector that can literally bankrupt America, but they have the power to make sure nothing hinders them in any way. That's not in the best interest of anyone but Wall Street. But the current situation is such that they can just contribute to politicians as much as needed to get their way, or contribute to their opponents to push anyone who doesn't do their bidding out of office. How is this good for America? These ARE the un-principled, and they're running rough shod over all of America. That has nothing to do with corporations and everything to do with the abject corruption of government. THAT is fixable. No, it's one and the same. And how do you fix that? They can contribute unlimited.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
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Actually 4ager; you got it right...it's abject corruption of government. That's what we have...that's precisely the point I'm trying to make. Unlimited political contributions corrupts unlimited. We all know that the only thing a politician REALLY cares about is re-election. So if corporations have the ability to cash bully politicians, what do you call that?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Actually 4ager; you got it right...it's abject corruption of government. That's what we have...that's precisely the point I'm trying to make. Unlimited political contributions corrupts unlimited. We all know that the only thing a politician REALLY cares about is re-election. So if corporations have the ability to cash bully politicians, what do you call that? You're looking at a symptom, not the cause.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,667 |
Actually 4ager; you got it right...it's abject corruption of government. That's what we have...that's precisely the point I'm trying to make. Unlimited political contributions corrupts unlimited. We all know that the only thing a politician REALLY cares about is re-election. So if corporations have the ability to cash bully politicians, what do you call that? You're looking at a symptom, not the cause. The cause is unlimited corporate influence in the political process. The symptom (fatal one at that) is a completely corrupt legislature. (we're only mostly corrupt now, not completely corrupt )
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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what is it now, 500 or 600 volumes, plus the 13 pages here, to try and determine what the 250 year old constitution means?
Time for a new one.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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If corporations are "people" then how come we don't prosecute BP for killing a dozen rig workers, or Ford Motors for burning teenagers up in Pintos; and then putting the whole board of directors on death row?
Either they are people and have personal rights on the one hand and can be sanctioned for wrong doings just like a person; or their not.
Conrad101st 1/503 Inf., 2nd ID (90-91) 3/327 Inf., 101st ABN (91-92)
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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If corporations are "people" then how come we don't prosecute BP for killing a dozen rig workers, or Ford Motors for burning teenagers up in Pintos; and then putting the whole board of directors on death row?
Either they are people and have personal rights on the one hand and can be sanctioned for wrong doings just like a person; or their not. Very good point...corporations get the best of both worlds. I'd love to see board members and CEO's held personally responsible for the willful gross negligence of their company; I'm betting many companies would be run in a very different way. But honestly, that's a whole different story, and I'd want to tread very lightly on reforming that part of corporations. The whole concept of a corporation is limitation of liability. If we remove that, then corporations will eventually cease to exist.
Last edited by GunGeek; 04/23/14.
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Campfire Regular
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Then I suppose the answer is self evident. If they can't be held to the same standards of conduct as a person, then they're not a person.
Conrad101st 1/503 Inf., 2nd ID (90-91) 3/327 Inf., 101st ABN (91-92)
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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what is it now, 500 or 600 volumes, plus the 13 pages here, to try and determine what the 250 year old constitution means?
Time for a new one. Again, you prove your utter stupidity.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
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If corporations are "people" then how come we don't prosecute BP for killing a dozen rig workers, or Ford Motors for burning teenagers up in Pintos; and then putting the whole board of directors on death row?
Either they are people and have personal rights on the one hand and can be sanctioned for wrong doings just like a person; or their not. That, sir, is an extremely good point. Per the history of the law of persona ficta, those "nonhuman persons" could be and were subject to the same penalties. Why they are not now is a very viable question.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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If corporations are "people" then how come we don't prosecute BP for killing a dozen rig workers, or Ford Motors for burning teenagers up in Pintos; and then putting the whole board of directors on death row?
Either they are people and have personal rights on the one hand and can be sanctioned for wrong doings just like a person; or their not. That, sir, is an extremely good point. Per the history of the law of persona ficta, those "nonhuman persons" could be and were subject to the same penalties. Why they are not now is a very viable question. I believe that's the whole reason corporations were created, to limit the liability to the corporation and protect the individual. for many things I can see a real need for that. There are other situations where some SOB ought to be a sex toy for a cell mate.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The purpose of a constitution or articles of incorporation for that matter since we are talking about corporations is to set in stone the operating procedures of an organization so its not subject to the whims of the current administration who happens to be in power. The left would ban guns and jack your taxes to the moon; then the next president who is evangelical would allow arrest without probable cause, ban women from working and ban contraceptives. Total GF.
Conrad101st 1/503 Inf., 2nd ID (90-91) 3/327 Inf., 101st ABN (91-92)
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Campfire Outfitter
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what is it now, 500 or 600 volumes, plus the 13 pages here, to try and determine what the 250 year old constitution means?
Time for a new one. Again, you prove your utter stupidity. It isn't that the Constitution lacks clarity. The problem is people trying to twist into something it is not, saying things it does not say.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
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what is it now, 500 or 600 volumes, plus the 13 pages here, to try and determine what the 250 year old constitution means?
Time for a new one. Again, you prove your utter stupidity. It isn't that the Constitution lacks clarity. The problem is people trying to twist into something it is not, saying things it does not say. Exactly
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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If corporations are "people" then how come we don't prosecute BP for killing a dozen rig workers, or Ford Motors for burning teenagers up in Pintos; and then putting the whole board of directors on death row?
Either they are people and have personal rights on the one hand and can be sanctioned for wrong doings just like a person; or their not. But they are indicted, or can be. And are responsible for the actions (both civil and criminal) of their employees under the legal theory of respondeat superior. Which means that if a member of the board of directors, or an executive(say)commits a criminal act in the course of his employment which is related to the corporations business, both the individual and the corporation, can be indicted. A corporation is considered a legal person in the eyes of the law. It can contract,sue or be sued,carry on any legal business the same as any individual. And it can be indicted. Interesting dialogue here; but we are covering really old, well settled law.
Last edited by BobinNH; 04/23/14.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
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If corporations are "people" then how come we don't prosecute BP for killing a dozen rig workers, or Ford Motors for burning teenagers up in Pintos; and then putting the whole board of directors on death row?
Either they are people and have personal rights on the one hand and can be sanctioned for wrong doings just like a person; or their not. But they are indicted, or can be. And are responsible for the actions (both civil and criminal) of their employees under the legal theory of respondeat superior. Which means that if a member of the board of directors, or an executive(say)commits a criminal act in the course of his employment which is related to the corporations business, both the individual and the corporation, can be indicted. A corporation is considered a legal person in the eyes of the law. It can contract,sue or be sued,carry on any legal business the same as any individual. And it can be indicted. Interesting dialogue here; but we are covering really old, well settled law. To the last point: yes, and no.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,058
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Posts: 4,058 |
what is it now, 500 or 600 volumes, plus the 13 pages here, to try and determine what the 250 year old constitution means?
Time for a new one. Again, you prove your utter stupidity. It isn't that the Constitution lacks clarity. The problem is people trying to twist into something it is not, saying things it does not say. Exactly And who is to say what it doesn't say. That is why we need a new one. So we all have a say in what it says.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It isn't that the Constitution lacks clarity. The problem is people trying to twist into something it is not, saying things it does not say. Exactly And who is to say what it doesn't say. That is why we need a new one. So we all have a say in what it says. You are truly congenitally stupid. "Ignore" was made for you, as continuing to read your unconscionable level of ignorance wastes valuable brain cells.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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