Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Shooting off the pack -- 7mm-08 Kimber Montana

The nice thing about the M1's is there is no cover to lose. I also find them easier to grab with cold fingers. Havn't had a problem with them loosing zero.

There's a guy who developed a Zero stop for them, as well.

http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/234751-leupold-mark-4-m1-zero-stop.html

No arguing the advantage of a Bi-pod, but it's hopeless down here unless you're sniping yotes or hogs across farm fields, even then it's tough because there aren't many places I hunt where you can go prone and not have visibility drop to zero.

Have a friend with a 300wm Montana he purchased for elk. He is a die-hard bipod user but wanted to try his out shooting off his hunting pack. We went out and had a difficult time, he tried both free recoil and grasping forend. I stood behind him and noticed his position had a fair amount of offset, kinda like shooting around a barricade. He didn't appear to have enough of his body behind the straight line of the rifle and his position was breaking down to his right side. In addition, he was shooting off the outside of his pack, not suspension side. Instead of the recoil consistently coming straight back and recovering like a piston, it would drive back in an inconsistent arc to his strong side and then he'd need to rebuild his position after the shot.

Don't know if any of this applies to your situation, but I had him establish his position more inline with the rifle maximizing his mass directly behind the rifle. He continued to shoot free recoil, but I had him flip the pack and use the stiffer suspension side of the pack as a more stable platform. This corrected his issue, the recoil was managed in a straight line, his recovery was good, and it resulted in consistent groups. In addition, his zeros were previously established off a seated bench. His POI was different shooting off the pack, but the difference was consistent. He merely made sight corrections and noted the new zeros/comeups.

Maybe this experience with my friend will give you some ideas.

later

= Monkey Pffuckin' A Jug

Just read some good posts by Boxer on shooting from the pack. Posts were from several years ago. No benches, pods, or formal rests.

Couple weeks ago I was curled up in a semi-fetal position shooting off the pack. That's what the terrain gave me, but it was stable as heck, and comfy. A lot of suffering in the hills compared to concrete benches at the club (most guys I know that have a membership to a formal range never shoot in the field, except when they are aiming at an animal ).

Jason

Gary,

Interesting info about your buddy. I've tried the suspension side of the pack but haven't noticed any difference out the 500y. The other side is more comfy, and creates a nice cradle for the rifle. If I get set-up properly I can spot my shots through the scope at that distance... rifle comes straight back.

I normally shoot with my body straight if possible, but that's what I like about shooting from real field positions. Its often times not possible, and the challenge is the fun part.

Jason

For certain areas I just leave the bipod on the rifle all season. They are so nice at times.

Unhandy on a dedicated truck gun though(IMHO).


Random shooting from a multitude of positions is of course the best idea for practice.



Bipods are very useful if you drop your pack before going Indian on an open country stalk.

Or if you don't have time to drop your pack before you shoot.




4th point, it is kinda painful hooking one onto an 84 Montana though...grin



I've also had better consistency holding the forearm with a good grip.

We used to call this stuff "grabbing a rest"...and it could be anything.

I killed one 6x6 at close to 500 yards, and a buck mule deer at 340 with a set of bins jammed into the ground and my left hand on top.Gave just enough elevation.My last bull elk at about 200 yards was from the sit with the rifle on top of a pack frame.

Other stuff has been rolled up jackets, packs,a jacket tossed across sage....logs, rocks...whatever is handy and fast,including a shooting sling like the Latigo. Key is spotting what's available and getting quickly into position.Years of doing the same on woodchucks makes shots at BG animals much easier.

Agree with Boxer on leaving the Harris bipods behind when I am on the move. In uneven terrain they are never the right height(it seems)for anything;they snag on brush, throw the balance of the rifle off and are generally a pain. I can see them for varmints or sitting on a spot but a pack works as well from prone, and a tight sling from the sit is about as steady and more flexible;easier to stay with a moving animal, too.

Easy enough to practice this stuff at the range,too. We have benches at 100,200,and 600 but also grass berms to flop prone at 300 to 600 yards. Stay off the benches after sight in and use the packs and other stuff to simulate field rests.

This is an excellent discussion... thanks to all for solid contributions.


I live and hunt in a place where a soda can would give you enough elevation to use as a rest.... so most of the time my rifles wear bipods. But for BG hunting, I prefer the pack. I've also used the Eberlestock as a front rest from sitting, and as an excellent rear rest when joined with sticks or other natural rest. Packs are quite handy for lottsa stuff...

When using the pack as a rest, sans sling, what do you typically do with your off hand? This question pertains to all but 'flave... I don't wanna know what you're doing with your off hand.... ever....

My preference is left hand atop the scope between the turret and objective (I also prefer to shoot this way with the bipod/rear bag set-up). I've found this best allows me to control the rifle under recoil, and watch the show.

This is not a comment about you, because I "know" you from this board. But at my range, when I've seen the hand atop the scope position in use, good shooting rarely followed.

Funny schit...SquatToPee is TRYING to talk rifles again. Hopefully,she and BSA' will form yet another Axis Of Imagination and dabble some "particulars" with their vaunted alliance,besides all of the rifles they were too [bleep] stupid to cypher. Laffin'!

M1's have no equal,end of story.

Anywhoo,it were in fact a Blue Thunder day and it got schlepped through the puckerbrush for 10hrs straight. Like always,I was hotter than [bleep] via MPAJ Ruck,though I gave a pard an exhibition on how to drive a rifle from the Hind Legs. It ain't even fair.(grin)

Curiously enough,it wears a 1" Leupie 3.5-10x 40mm A/O with Sillywet elevation and rest assured,I've beat the [bleep] outta it(the greatest of understatements). If M1's were available from inception,it'd be all that I had.

It may have a scritch or a scratch and one day it even rained upon it. Laffin'! Only close-up of the turret,from today...but you get the drift.



Key on a LW,is keeping the front rest in proximity to the receiver and away from swivel stud. The ass needs to keep from kissing it's stud too...as it's ALL about the release. My weakside mitt,just goes wherever it goes,as granted by opportunity. That in regards to what the MPAJ arrangement allows,in relation to a hand hold. I'm happiest,when orienting the forearm in my portside paw's "L"-shaped crook...which is billiards-esque,with palm towards muzzle. The money maker is nestling the butt and I've oft proved that point,by shooting without my weakside mitt even touching the rifle.

A great trigger,good bedding and a kiss...seal the deal. POA/POI intersection is then easily arranged and reliably. Hell...happiness is a HOT LW barrel,connectin' LR dots,if only to make Window Lickers cringe. Laffin'!

Shootin' is easy,for them who actually do it and it's never been tough to tell,who do and who don't.

Better dry duds,tie some more riggin',grab a bite,go glass for Bears and then rinse/repeat.

It's rough.(grin)

Guilty....

It's like Jim Furyk's golf swing....

Yep, 99.9% of the time Jim Furyk's swing won't work for anyone but Jim.

I've had really good luck with this position, as well...

The lightest rifle I have is a tad under 6 lbs.

I shoot it just like my other rifles.

Which means - the less I'm screwing with it, the better. I don't drape my arms or other extremities over it.

I simply balance the rifle on whatever I'm shooting off of and don't use any more grip than is necessary to stick the cross hair or dot where I want.

Dogshooter for me with a bipod and rear bag my left hand would be back on the rear bag,lending some more support back there or squeezing it to move the rifle a tiny bit for vertical;much the same as on a bench.

Over a pack my left hand is under the rifle,and I'd say I comfortably do this routinely to 300-400 yards.For me this is standard "next step" once I have a rifle zeroed.Theory being I am likely to have anything for a rest from the pack to a rock or log and want some cushion under the fore end rather than resting the fore end on something hard, which we know is a no-no.

But I am flexible and whatever it takes to steady things down enough to make a shot given time constraints. I am not proud how I get it done.You never know what you are going to get dished out for a field rest,so the left hand goes where it needs to.

Last NH buck, I had just settled in on a rock pile and was enjoying things when a buck broke cover on a lope after a hot doe,at what turned out to be about 300 yards. I was surrounded by low lying juniper bushes,and tried to flop prone but immediately sunk past my eyeballs,and had to scramble to the sit and take a half wrap in the Latigo...he was half way across by now,and hesitated.I hit him in the ribs and he took off in a mad dash but stopped at the edge of the woods, head down, obviously hit.I moved a bit to clear another bush,and shot again,hitting about 6" from the first shot and he went down hit twice through the chest.

The Latigo saved the day, giving just enough steadiness to make the shot with not much time.A bipod would have been worthless to me then;just too much ground cover and no where to get down.The sit was the only option,and the sling has saved me more than a few times.

This is not easy maneuvering when you are north of 60 and I'm glad I did not have to watch myself pull this off.

But you do the best you can with what you got at the time.

Heres a lint to an excellent article on the subject...

Nathan Foster: Hold that Forend

Dog shooter that was a good article!

I agree. Really good article.

A few months back a buddy was having trouble with his 7RM Tikkler. Had him read that article, and mentioned my experience with the Kimber. He was getting a quite a bit of muzzle jump, more than I recall with my T3 rifles.

We then went out and worked on loads for his rifle last month ('04 date written is wrong, it was actually this year 2014). The 2nd pic is the backside of the target. IIRC there were 9 or 10 shots that basically made one big hole while we increased charge weights. He settled on 69gr and fired that 6-shot group on top of the earlier load work.

Jason