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Campfire Outfitter
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I can't ever recall seeing anything about nib or perfect or even m70's only it the title of this thread. could be wrong but there are many other models of Winchesters than 70's. I love Winchesters and have a few, only one 70. can't understand the intolerance .
the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Ranger
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"My way is the only pure way" to enlightenment, has killed more than a few over the centuries.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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I love Model 12s, especially transition and flat fore end 16's.
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Campfire Tracker
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I just bought a .257 Roberts model 70 out of Idaho off the Internet with finish wear about like Battue's Model 12. The gun is all original, but carried much. With that said, the bore looks like new and I have extremely clean Model 70s that have more finish wear where the bolt rubs the receiver, making me think the gun was shot little. I pulled it out of the stock, which I don't think had occurred in 65 years and cleaned the dirt and grass and cosmoline off. After cleaning it up, I think this was a ranch or farm gun carried in the tractor or pickup. That is more interesting to me than a pristine example at twice the money or more. In fact, I think this one may go mule deer hunting in the fall.
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Campfire Member
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It seems like Mr. Balltown's getting his shorts in a bunch over his interpretation of the word "Collector" in the Forum name. Maybe if the name of the Forum was changed to "Winchester Enthusiasts" or "Winchester Lovers", he'd be OK with it. Personally, I've got some hangups like D&T guns or shortened barrels, but honestly used guns are a thing of beauty IMHO.
yooper
Charter & Life Member #108 WACA
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Campfire Tracker
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It's amusing as I've seen, "collector" Winchesters for sale for well in the five digit range - and still you kind find tap holes, alterations, replaced parts, part or all refinished, etc. Rarely is the old adage, "it's always something" not true.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I just bought a .257 Roberts model 70 out of Idaho off the Internet with finish wear about like Battue's Model 12. The gun is all original, but carried much. With that said, the bore looks like new and I have extremely clean Model 70s that have more finish wear where the bolt rubs the receiver, making me think the gun was shot little. I pulled it out of the stock, which I don't think had occurred in 65 years and cleaned the dirt and grass and cosmoline off. After cleaning it up, I think this was a ranch or farm gun carried in the tractor or pickup. That is more interesting to me than a pristine example at twice the money or more. In fact, I think this one may go mule deer hunting in the fall. Cool find DMD.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire Ranger
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Well guys, I gotta tell ya and it's good stuff.  BalltownBob and I have been shooting a couple PM's back and forth and he is a good fellow. Not pompous or arrogant, but seems to be a genuine fine individual. My take is he looks at the Winchester Collectors forum as gun specific as in; "You guys collect these particular Winchesters." I said that I think most of us see the forum from the aspect of we are "Winchester Collectors" that just happen to like Winchesters of just about any persuasion. Original, survivors, modified, etc. It doesn't matter, we just like most things Winchester. He sees the product in the header, we see us in the header. Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but he is definitely a good guy and one I hope continues to hang around the Winchester forum. I'm pretty sure he has more than a little Winchester knowledge to share. 
Last edited by battue; 05/10/14.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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If I were one to get caught up in close, textual examination of forum titles, I'd have to agree with balltownbob.
This forum, as it's evolved, could be more accurately designated the "Winchester Accumulator's" forum.
I know that's what I am. I love Winchesters of all sorts: 70's, 52's, 94's, 71's, 12's, 21's and love seeing them being put to use rather than moldering away in some safe somewhere waiting for a probate court to auction them off after their collector/owner passes and nobody in the family wants old guns more than they want fresh cash.
Last edited by Oregon45; 05/10/14.
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Campfire Outfitter
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this is where I get confused and at times frustrated. balltownbob sees Winchester collectors as model 70 Winchesters exclusive.
I like m70's. l am addicted to Winchesters of all models. can I not post on the Winchester collectors forum unless I only have acquired a new m70? not trying to cause any one trouble but I'm confused. did I not read a forum rule?
I will say that balltownbob presented his opinion without the vitriol some have used.
the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
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It seems like Mr. Balltown's getting his shorts in a bunch over his interpretation of the word "Collector" in the Forum name. Maybe if the name of the Forum was changed to "Winchester Enthusiasts" or "Winchester Lovers", he'd be OK with it. Personally, I've got some hangups like D&T guns or shortened barrels, but honestly used guns are a thing of beauty IMHO.
yooper
Charter & Life Member #108 WACA Frankly I have never understood the snobbery of folks like BTB, here we are discussing "factory made rifles," of course there are 'arms collectors' that at one copy per, cost many times more than somes entire collection, the vaults their sitting in and the home that covers the whole damn thing. I've met a couple of these individuals, they have been completely gracious, kind and polite to me, guess some folks [BTB] find a niche they can afford to be in and become snobs in that particular niche.  I like all guns and have no queens, IDGAC if it's ever had the bolt in it or not, when I get it, she gets shot. Gunner
Trump Won!
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Well guys, I gotta tell ya and it's good stuff. BalltownBob and I have been shooting a couple PM's back and forth and he is a good fellow. Not pompous or arrogant, but seems to be a genuine fine individual. My take is he looks at the Winchester Collectors forum as gun specific as in; "You guys collect these particular Winchesters." I said that I think most of us see the forum from the aspect of we are "Winchester Collectors" that just happen to like Winchesters of just about any persuasion. Original, survivors, modified, etc. It doesn't matter, we just like most things Winchester. He sees the product in the header, we see us in the header. Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but he is definitely a good guy and one I hope continues to hang around the Winchester forum. I'm pretty sure he has more than a little Winchester knowledge to share. battue: Gotta say that you have handled this entire situation with a lot of class. And I appreciate you reaching out to BTB. No doubt he is a good guy. But his posts came across (to me at least) as pretty pompous, exclusive, elitist, or whatever. I enjoy this forum the way it is, and don't understand why anyone would feel the need to denigrate the interests or passions of other gun enthusiasts. But, as we all know, it's easy to be misunderstood, or misinterpreted, on the interweb. Bottom line for me, is: BTB is certainly welcome here, and I'm sure he could be a valuable contributor. But I would hope he would understand, and be more tolerant of the fact that all of us do not share his more-narrow interest in only unmodified M70's (and only M70's). And just because others' interests do not align precisely with his, they are not wrong, nor better nor worse, than his....just different. If he feels strongly about his stated position, then I respectfully submit, that he would be more wise, and more likely successful, to suggest starting a new, more specific forum, rather than attempting to convert and already existing, successful, and popular forum.
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Campfire Ranger
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As far as reaching out he sent me a PM first. And I'm glad he did.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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OP
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Gentlemen, I assure you my Winchester interests extend far beyond the 70...I used 70s as the best example of what I thought was a departure from the realm of collecting into simply one of talking about rifles with no collector appeal save for folks who were not concerned about originality of which those numbers here far exceed those who are purists....
Didn't mean to stir up the schittstorm that resulted...
Life's too short to smoke cheap cigars....
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I still welcome you in (for what it's worth). We can use another good knowledgeable Winchester guy around here.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Yeah, we're getting tired of the same old blemished Winchester photos. 
"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon
"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Hey now, I haven't posted too many photos of my new XTR fwt have I??  
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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I still welcome you in (for what it's worth). We can use another good knowledgeable Winchester guy around here. LOL....Thanks...That's very kind of you...other than this thread I spend a lot more time here reading and learning....I will jump in, though, if I believe bad information is being given, especially on 70s which have held my interest for over fifty years...and I still learn things about them on a regular basis.... A few words of caution on Roger Rule's book...before its release it was common knowledge among many 70 experts (I was not one of the experts) that the book was coming and contained info on many rifles of dubious ancestry....the book is a trove of info on the more common guns BUT beware of exotic stuff so beautifully depicted in its pages....Many of these guns are FAKE, put together rifles....they are enough to make one drool with lust but did not come out of New Haven...unfortunately the fakery also extended to common, NIB (?) guns, too...to make matters worse a fellow in Michigan was turning out barrels in the rare (7.65, 9mm, etc.) and inscribing same with original factory tooling....no longer did a person have to find an original take-off barrel; he could get a new one that looked just like it really came from Winchester....I could go on and on but will stop....you get the picture... Cheers, BTB
Life's too short to smoke cheap cigars....
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I'm going to say what a lot of other members here are thinking....no true M70 enthusiast has any interest in guns that have been refinished, re-chambered, re-barreled or in any way been rendered non-original...
Modified guns are Winchester only by virtue that at one time they were original specimens...I think the original intent of this forum was to discuss/showcase factory-correct specimens and posters ought to refrain from putting up instances of what, in many cases, are junked-up examples of rifles. A worn original gun is far more interesting than a bubba'd up, refinished example, IMO, especially if in a rare cartridge...
I welcome your opinion but couldn't disagree more. Assuming original intent of the forum well just makes an "@$$" out of you. Also assuming the thoughts of members secures your position there. I personally welcome all Winchester collectors and enthusiast and their appreciation of the Winchester brand no matter what form it takes.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I still welcome you in (for what it's worth). We can use another good knowledgeable Winchester guy around here. LOL....Thanks...That's very kind of you...other than this thread I spend a lot more time here reading and learning....I will jump in, though, if I believe bad information is being given, especially on 70s which have held my interest for over fifty years...and I still learn things about them on a regular basis.... A few words of caution on Roger Rule's book...before its release it was common knowledge among many 70 experts (I was not one of the experts) that the book was coming and contained info on many rifles of dubious ancestry....the book is a trove of info on the more common guns BUT beware of exotic stuff so beautifully depicted in its pages....Many of these guns are FAKE, put together rifles....they are enough to make one drool with lust but did not come out of New Haven...unfortunately the fakery also extended to common, NIB (?) guns, too...to make matters worse a fellow in Michigan was turning out barrels in the rare (7.65, 9mm, etc.) and inscribing same with original factory tooling....no longer did a person have to find an original take-off barrel; he could get a new one that looked just like it really came from Winchester....I could go on and on but will stop....you get the picture... Cheers, BTB I've been told that before and have also had my suspicions about some of the rifles. I've also ran across some minor discrepancies in his great book. However, it is the best reference book a guy can get in regards to the old model 70..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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