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Originally Posted by UncleJake
I agree that 9 out of 10 seems far fetched. Also, an EMP only works on stuff that is turned on at the time. Just saying�


In all fairness, if they can take out the refrigeration at Walmart there is a better than even chance of starving most of your population.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by UncleJake
I agree that 9 out of 10 seems far fetched. Also, an EMP only works on stuff that is turned on at the time. Just saying�


In all fairness, if they can take out the refrigeration at Walmart there is a better than even chance of starving most of your population.
Y'all don't have no Walmart stores down yonder?

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We are not that sophisticated...but we are getting there.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Originally Posted by justin10mm
Your average grocery store only has three days worth of food.



If you've ever been in Alabama when they predict a rare ice storm, the local Piggly Wiggly will be out of food in about 4 hours.




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"Not many are killed or harmed by the blast itself, but as the EMP pulse spreads across America, life changes in an instant, coming to a screeching halt as a country dependent on cutting-edge 21st century technology regresses at least a century in time instantaneously."

SWEET!

I've always said that I was born into the wrong century. Let's get this ball rolling. smile


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In all fairness, if they can take out the refrigeration at Walmart there is a better than even chance of starving most of your population.


Just a few days ago, while I was at the Grocery store, I got to thinking on how much food was piled up in this small town and how much all across America. Much of it perishable. There are lots of moving parts to keep all the people fed and it could deteriorate quickly for various reasons. Just think of a situation where diesel fuel became unavailable for a month, and the trucks could not haul stuff around. It gets scary if you think about it and follow the implications. miles


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Originally Posted by 2ndwind
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Second_After

This is a work of fiction..... A well written book though set near where I live.......Started buying more canned food after reading it...... Had the ammo thing already covered..... Wise to have a supply of needed medications too......


That was the first e-book I read when I got a Barnes and Noble account. Great book. Talks bout some angles to the "sudden zero tech" world that a lot of people don't think about.

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Originally Posted by justin10mm
Your average grocery store only has three days worth of food.
Or, three DAYS if there's a panic...

Some of those "9 out of 10" will die due to gunshots from residents tryin' to protect their lands, food and lives..



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the science regarding EMP is unproven. Everyone seems to have an opinion though, and that usually is tied to some funding request.
9 out of 10 is utter bullchit.


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I suggest it would kill mostly liberals and city dwellers but the hearty folks in the midwest would be just fine. It would certainly purge out the leeches in our society that cant survive without handouts. The strong would survive.

Last edited by DIYguy; 05/14/14.
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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by UncleJake
An EMP also only affects digital systems, not analog. But hey, what do I know�
I don't think you're in any way right on that one. EMP effects most electronics.


Wow does this bring back memories
That would be correct . EMP effects most all electronics that have not been shielded.
So some digital like in phones might not be effected .
But there would be an effect on the vast majority of the electrical systems in the US .
The claim at one time , at least from what I recall in my training was that the equipment needed to be on for the pulse to over load and fry the system . However this was also based on early electronics which did not carry a constant charge . IE point ignitions in vehicles where the condensers were held a charge while the engine was running.
Today however most all vehicles and electronics hold a charge constantly or are delicate to the point that when installing them even a static charge can damage a chip . So my training may be very dated

As to if one blast would or could take out the communication and transportation systems in the US,
That would depend on the yield and altitude of the blast .
Its been a while but I want to say that the claim was that it would take 3 separate blasts , strategically placed to effect the main communication hubs .

The whole subject however is kind of mute since such a blast at the proper altitude would require a whole lot of other systems to fail well prior to such a blast even happening in our skies .


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Originally Posted by captchee
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by UncleJake
An EMP also only affects digital systems, not analog. But hey, what do I know�
I don't think you're in any way right on that one. EMP effects most electronics.


Wow does this bring back memories
That would be correct . EMP effects most all electronics that have not been shielded.
So some digital like in phones might not be effected .
But there would be an effect on the vast majority of the electrical systems in the US .
The claim at one time , at least from what I recall in my training was that the equipment needed to be on for the pulse to over load and fry the system . However this was also based on early electronics which did not carry a constant charge . IE point ignitions in vehicles where the condensers were held a charge while the engine was running.
Today however most all vehicles and electronics hold a charge constantly or are delicate to the point that when installing them even a static charge can damage a chip . So my training may be very dated

As to if one blast would or could take out the communication and transportation systems in the US,
That would depend on the yield and altitude of the blast .
Its been a while but I want to say that the claim was that it would take 3 separate blasts , strategically placed to effect the main communication hubs .

The whole subject however is kind of mute since such a blast at the proper altitude would require a whole lot of other systems to fail well prior to such a blast even happening in our skies .
Quite right. I don't think the Norks are anywhere near being able to do this. A dirty bomb smuggled in by the A-rabs is a lot more likely. If there was an EMP though there are two extremes. One is that the government is so effing incompetent that they've just let all this go and we are virtually unprotected. The other is that the government knows a lot more about EMP than they are letting out. The truth is probably somewhere in between but I'm thinking the latter is close to it. If it were the former, lots of folks would be dead as the Nuke plants melt down and the workers simply abandon ship to save themselves and their families. Lots of considerations. I don't think civilian electronics have much protection at all though.

All that said, I think a lot of stuff would still work.

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a dirty bomb wouldnt do it .
any ground blast would only effect the area within the blast yield radius containing the emp pulse . it would have to be a altitude blast or the result would only be a localized areas as within a city .
So called dirty bombs also don�t need to be an actual nuclear blast at all . They can be a small yield or a conventional blast which produces radiation contamination to a given area .

With an EMP target , you want altitude and a yield suitable for creating a large enough pulse to cover the target area .


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Originally Posted by captchee

a dirty bomb wouldnt do it .
any ground blast would only effect the area within the blast yield radius containing the emp pulse . it would have to be a altitude blast or the result would only be a localized areas as within a city .
So called dirty bombs also don�t need to be an actual nuclear blast at all . They can be a small yield or a conventional blast which produces radiation contamination to a given area .

With an EMP target , you want altitude and a yield suitable for creating a large enough pulse to cover the target area .
I'm aware of that. I'm just saying that I don't think most of the usual suspects have the knowledge or capability to do an EMP attack and that a dirty bomb is much more likely to succeed, if only on a limited basis. I wasn't talking about a dirty bomb with the primary purpose of generating an EMP since it is as you say, of only limited usefulness in that capacity.

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Originally Posted by captchee

a dirty bomb wouldnt do it .
any ground blast would only effect the area within the blast yield radius containing the emp pulse . it would have to be a altitude blast or the result would only be a localized areas as within a city .
So called dirty bombs also don�t need to be an actual nuclear blast at all . They can be a small yield or a conventional blast which produces radiation contamination to a given area .

With an EMP target , you want altitude and a yield suitable for creating a large enough pulse to cover the target area .
It needs to be above the area you'd want to effect IOW.

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This would be dispatched over an area of mass population (large city center) made up mostly of the weak that rely on things being transported to them since they are incapable of self sufficiency. Those of us living in more remote regions that do for ourselves would fair very well. The wife and I would most likely not be impacted very much. We dont have a TV in our Tipi (she likes to watch TV but I havent watched in 9 years)

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The planet dodged a bullet traveling at 3000 km/s almost two years ago.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2014/02may_superstorm/

Quote
The close shave happened almost two years ago. On July 23, 2012, a plasma cloud or "CME" rocketed away from the sun as fast as 3000 km/s, more than four times faster than a typical eruption. The storm tore through Earth orbit, but fortunately Earth wasn't there. Instead it hit the STEREO-A spacecraft. Researchers have been analyzing the data ever since, and they have concluded that the storm was one of the strongest in recorded history. "It might have been stronger than the Carrington Event itself," says Baker.


Quote
The Carrington Event of Sept. 1859 was a series of powerful CMEs that hit Earth head-on, sparking Northern Lights as far south as Tahiti. Intense geomagnetic storms caused global telegraph lines to spark, setting fire to some telegraph offices and disabling the 'Victorian Internet." A similar storm today could have a catastrophic effect on modern power grids and telecommunication networks. According to a study by the National Academy of Sciences, the total economic impact could exceed $2 trillion or 20 times greater than the costs of a Hurricane Katrina. Multi-ton transformers fried by such a storm could take years to repair and impact national security.


Quote
Had the eruption occurred just one week earlier, the blast site would have been facing Earth, rather than off to the side, so it was a relatively narrow escape.


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Does anyone know how many nukes we've set off in our own atmosphere?


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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Does anyone know how many nukes we've set off in our own atmosphere?
no, but you bet your ass ethan edwards is googling it like a banshee. Get ready for capn cutnpaste to blow in any minute with expert analysis

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Many, but back then electronics were vacuum tubes and transistors. They appear to be far more resistant than the current crop of marvels. Look, power grids are all controlled digitally. Trains are controlled by computers,trucking is controlled by computers. Hell even most cash registers are digitalized so the damage would be quite impressive. The panic factor would be even more impressive as even emergency response is computer dispatched (IF the phones still work).


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