Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Bullet swaging

Given the high level of interest in all things rifle, I am surprised I have never seen an article on individuals doing there own bullet swaging, although I have seen ads for the equipment.
Is it just too expensive, or too involved or are the results not good?

I can't remember anyone writing about this much since Dean Grinnell died.

On the cast bullets sites there are forum's on swaging-Muddy

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I had three Ted Smith Mity Mite bullet swaging presses, dies for making everything from 22 centerfire bullets from empty 22 rimfire brass to making 458 Win Mag bullets from copper tubing to 7-step 7mm rebated-boattail bullets. Had bullet making lead wire, adjustable gang core molds, etc. Had all the original paper work, invoices, manuals, etc.

Played with them since I was 13 years old.

A fellow saw it this past January and had to have all of it.

Never saw anyone as excited about old bullet stuff.

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I have a set of the Corbin dies to make .224 bullet jackets from 22RF cases. I have thousands of empty copper 22 LR cases that came with the set. Apparently the original owner of the dies ran the local small bore club and got a buy, many, many years ago on some copper cased 22LR.

My wife and I shot a lot of ground squirrels with home made 52 grain hollow points in our 222's. I even used them for coyotes in a Savage 24V 222/20 gauge occasionally.

I've used the bullet forming dies from that set to make bullets for my Swift with commercial jackets and had good luck with them. With an additional lead tip point forming die a guy could make a lot of different bullets using both the rimfire jackets and commercial jackets.

The dies to make bullets are expensive. When you start getting into multiple calibers, the investment would be huge. The benefit would be being able to produce the bullets you want when you want them. With jacket drawing dies you can even make your own jackets from copper tubing.

I enjoy making the the .224 bullets from the 22LR cases. They cannot be used over 3200 fps and tend not to be as accurate as factory bullets. That was not the case with one of the 222's we used to have. My wife had a post 64 Winchester varmint with the really heavy barrel that would shoot them as well as any commercial bullet. That rifle seemed to shoot nearly everything into 3/8" groups, including the home made bullets.

I'm sorry that my experience is limited to only the 22LR bullet swaging dies and wish I could be of more help. I've often thought I'd like to get into more swaging but the investment has always stood in the way.

There have been a few, but even amongst reloaders, the amount of work and equipment costs are often too much for them to bother.

Scott Mayer did an article about .224 bullets made from 22LR cases a few years ago.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/01/04/ammunition_st_223short_200711/

There are several old wive's tales about making bullets that seem to make the rounds on a regular basis - especially 224 bullets from RF cases. It isn't 1930 anymore, but people still think that homemade bullets made from rimfire cases are less accurate than commercial ones. With today's bullet making/prepping equipment, my .224 bullets group with Speer, Sierra, or Hornady stuff. Properly cleaning the brass and completely cleaning the lead cores are important. Technology has made a hugh leap since they first started making bullet jackets using RF cases. Ultrasonic cleaners are a great tool.

There are one or two other reasons this isn't too popular.

Some old timers cannot get past the fact that corrosive priming hasn't been used with RF cases since WWII or before. They insist that corrosive chemicals will line the inside of your rifle barrel. That is rubbish.

Old prejudices die hard. This is perpetuated, in part, by modern technology. Too much wrong information is distributed via the Interwebs by people that have never made any, never shot any, or both.

I am a member at one bullet making site where you'd swear the average age was 12. They love talking about it, and chatter back and forth about the technical stuff, yet have not ordered or received any equipment.

Steve,

For the most part I've found the same, accuracy wise with mine. My wife's model 70 liked them as well as any commercial bullet. My 700 ADL 222, which was a 1 1/4 " gun with the best of loads, would only do about 1.5-2" with the RF jackets but it was a difficult rifle from the start with any load. The Savage 24V ran 1" all the time with them or commercials. A couple buddies I supplied with them, reported they shot very well in their 223's

I have a Daly mini Mauser action that's going to become a 222 in the near future and those bullets will be the primary bullet. I don't see much use in buying bullets for a 222 when I have enough material to make a life time supply for it.

I liked the way they performed on coyotes in a 222. My wife loved slaying ground squirrels with them.

Mart

Like you, I have several lifetime's worth of .224 bullet jackets. I have approx. 350,000 22RF cases in my workshop, ready to be made into jackets. I have approx.30,000 empty jackets processed, over 15,000 60 and 65 gr. bullets already made, in boxes. I have about 5,000 43 gr. .224 bullets for my Hornet.

My 2 favourite .224 cartridges are the 22 Hornet and 222. Unless an unusual bullet comes out, I won't bother with 224 bullets anymore.

.224s aren't the only diameter that I make. I also do 6mm, .308, .311 and .313. My personal belief is, in the race to find the ultimate cartridge or bullet, most hunters are passing up some of the greats.

Rifles and bullets are tools. You have to pick the right one for the job. Unfortunately, something like 90% of the hunters and shooters think that there is a 'one size fits all' cartridge/bullet. There isn't.

Outside of testing commercial bullets, I don't bother with anything store bought anymore. All my hunting is done with bullets I make in my shop. I run three manual bullet presses - 2 Walnut Hills and 1 Series II press. Last year, I got a pneumatic press to make jacketing processing faster and easier.

The target pic was from a few years ago. The holes were made with my 222 Tikka, and measured .75 inch @ 100 yd. It is a typical group. That's all I ask of my 222s and they always deliver. I never bothered to try working up anything tighter. I use them on coyotes and there aren't any benches were I hunt.


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80% of my bullets are made with a protected point. In short, they work. I don't shoot over 300 yd, so these are the cat's a$$. For longer ranges, I have other shapes. The 60s and 65s both will stabilize in my 222s. They are not as explosive as the lighter bullets or commercial ones made with thin jackets. This is because they are heavy for the cartridge.

The bullet below is a 200 gr. .313 bullet I shoot from my Lee Enfields. It is made with a commercial jacket. On the right, is my 43 gr. bullet made from a 22 LR case beside a commercial Winchester 45 gr. SP. The last picture is a 65 gr. .224 bullet.

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Back in the 1970's...

When sleeved Remingtons ruled and the 222 Remington was unchallenged...

Seemed like half the serious benchrest shooters used Sierra Matchkings and the other half swaged their own match bullets.

Went to benchrest matches where most of the shooters had swaged their own bullets.

After a day's shooting, the shooters would discuss what made the best lube for bullet swaging and what was the best technique for making lead bullet cores.

Some discussed the benefit of letting lead cores age before seating them into the jackets. Of course, all the cores were of the softest lead.

Some of the bullet swagers evolved into making good enough match bullets that some of the other swagers dropped their personal swaging and used the bullets of the better swagers.


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Steve,

The bandwidth here on the project won't let me see the pictures so I'll have to get a look at them tomorrow when I get home from my hitch. I have looked many times at the Walnut Hill presses but have never elected to spend the money. My dies are for a regular reloading press.

I've never played with anything heavier than 55 grains with my dies. I have turned out a number of 40 grain bullets with 22 short jackets for a friend's 22 Hornet. He liked them and so did his Hornet. The ground squirrels not so much.

I keep toying with the idea of getting a lead tip pointing die to go with my set. That would allow me a little wider selection. I don't have anywhere near your stock of jackets, maybe 25,000 total, About 10,000 copper cased and the rest standard brass 22LR.

I started out using lead wire cores but have since come up with a core mold. Have you ever ever tried wheel weight cores and if so have you ever noticed any difference in performance over plain lead?

Mart

And there still is a group of serious bulletmakers that serve the BR world.

I'm of the mind that if I was a serious competitive shooter, I'd rather be squeezing off shots than spending time in my workshop making bullets.

Walnut Hill presses would be my choice if I was starting. They are better built and stronger than the S Press (that replaced the Series II). They are also cheaper. A lot cheaper! The Walnut Hill press is $450. The S Press is $740! A $290 difference. . You can buy two dies of a three die set with the savings.

I went with the bullet presses because I wrestled with a Rockchucker years ago. It was too physically demanding. The WH press is effortless.

I ended up getting a jacket trim die when I couldn't get 22 short cases. That solved the supply and demand problem for my Hornet.

WW lead is too hard. The hardness is about 8 or 9 BHN, which is too much for either the Corbin or RCE dies. I read somewhere that 5 BHN is about max for the small bullet presses. I just increased the thickness of the jacket and use pure lead.

Heavy for calibre bullets moving at moderate velocities hit and mushroom properly without the need of unusual bullet points or harder lead IMO. I figured it works with my cast bullets - heavy and slow - so it should work with jacketed as well. I've recovered three or four of my 200 grainers and they lost about 30-40% of their weight. This is from the 303 British. I've shot deer from a 308 and 30-06, but they were pass throughs.

Fortunately I have several hundred pounds of pure lead. I kind of suspected the WW would be too hard for the bullets. You've piqued my interest. I may have to give the Walnut hill some serious thought.

Mart

The only good use for a 9,3mm bullet is to have it swaged down to .358" A 286 gr 35 cal parition - now there's nirvana.

You have to personally witness what a 53 grain bullet made from a rimfire jacket will do to a crow when fired from a .223. I have a picture around somewhere that shows a head, foot, and one wing. Totally awesome!
I used to compete in Highpower Matches using heavy 77 grain .223 bullets before Sierra came out with the 80 grain MK and sometimes placed in the money.
I've also swaged lead bullets to be paper patched for my .45/70 and killed elk and deer with them. I enjoy being somewhat independent.:-)

Here are a couple of other pictures. This first one is the Corbin Series II press beside the bigger WH press. From left to right: I seat the cores with the first press, Point form with the middle press, and form the protected point with the third.



From left to right: The core is placed inside the jacket. Next, it is squeezed down inside and swells out close to the finished diameter. Third, the point is formed. Fourth, the exposed lead is rounded over.



These are some of my 22LR cases waiting to be processed.





Do you buy 9.3 bullets and draw them down to .358 regularly?

Thanks guys. I've really enjoyed reading these post. Back in the early '80s I wanted to get into bullet making but I just didn't have the money.

SO, who makes the best RF cases to make into bullets, U or W?

I use a lot of SK Jagd cases. The picture below shows the SK headstamp. That's because I get them from an indoor range and most of the users shoot smallbore competitively. They form quite well with fewer cracks and inconsistencies.



That headstamp forms quite well as do Winchester, Eley, and Remington. For whatever reason, RWS and Lapua break quite a lot when you put them through the derimming die. This work hardening is reduced by stress relieving the cases after they are made into little cups. This crappy picture shows commercial cases as well as and 22LR cases made into jackets. If you look at the right, you can see a commercial case beside a case formed from a 22LR case.



Thank goodness it's not about the money you spend! If it was left up to many of the posters on this board, they would buy all the top end 22LR and attempt to re-form the cases. Having good quality tools and equipment is important, but attention to detail wins the day. For serious competitors, commercial cases like Walt Berger's J4s are the standard, but that's because he built it into a large commercial operation with virtually no competition. It's definitely a niche market. Sierra sells their cases too, but supply is spotty. They are not in the jacket making business though. That's about it for what most people would call high end, competition jackets.

For varmint hunters, making your own cases from rimfire jackets can be well worth the initial cost, but it depends on how much you shoot. If you buy jackets already made, it can save time, but adds to the expense. In the end, it all boils down to what you are willing to spend. What's good for me may not be worth it to you. Then of course, there's the hobby aspect. I know some guys that enjoy forming jackets or making bullets in the evening, or when the weather is bad outside. For those of use that live up north, making bullets is a nice winter hobby.

There are some small businesses that make jackets for larger game bullets, but Corbins is about the best and most reliable for 6mm, 30 cal and some others. Certainly, you can draw down larger jackets to form smaller cals.



The trick with making bullets isn't how much you spend, it's the care in construction. I used to boil the cases to clean them. That was what Dave Corbin wrote in his swaging book. Several years ago, I switched to an ultrasonic cleaner and that eliminated 99% of the crud that clung to the inside of the case. I also use the ultrasonic on the lead cores to remove all traces of lubricant.

There's no magic to bulletmaking, despite what you read on the Interwebs. The custom bulletmakers have to give their customers a short story full of technical intrigue and mystery. It establishes their brand and helps justify the cost.

Thanks to everyone here for the interesting and informative posts and an especial thanks to Steve Redgwell for the pictures and great posts. Lots of great information here.

Fred

Twas a pleasure.