Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Minimum 'caliber' for Kodiak Brown Bear?

Don't hold back.

The pussbag did not even have the decency to just STFU but had to spell out where his true dedication lies...

Hmm...? Funny you mention him. I subscribed to Shooting Times for many years; he is easily the biggest and final straw which terminated my relationship with that magazine. He certainly had a way of �spell[ing] out where his true dedication lies�.

Art's liable to have a stroke one of these days if he doesn't learn to express his frustrations

The right bullet out of an '06, placed where it needs to be, will kill about anything NA has to offer. No doubt about that. It's been repeatedly documented and will continue to be.

But, with the cost of such a hunt, I'd take my NH, M-70 SS Classic .375 H&H (21" tube) over my 7RM, '06, .300WM .338-284, 9.3x62, etc. Probably won't kill the bear any deader, would sure make me feel better.

Some of the others, like the 9.3, are pretty fancy. My .375 is SS/Tupperware with a Zeiss Victory 1.5-6x42 in Talley QD's and NECG fiber optic irons. (Scope's probably worth more than the rifle, but that's OK). It feels right, handles great and is rugged enough for the wettest, nastiest terrain, places where I wouldn't want to take a nicer gun.

Just sayin'

DF

I spent years cowboying/guiding in G bear country with a Winchester Mod. 95 carbine in 30-06 with 220 grain round nose bullets in my saddle scabbard. I know they are not Br. bears but I can tell you that this combo kills big bears dead. That being said if I was ever to go after big costal Grizzly/Brown bears on purpose I would want my 458 WM or at least my 325 WSM with me

IdahoPro had a little different feeling about front sights after we went through a smallish patch of alders one day... No pack and no wounded bear ahead the sight still grabbed every alder he tried to pass, as they are wont to do.

Getting rid of gadgets and trash is far better...

But, it looks good, scores style points...

DF

Might look good to some...

I moved up here in '07, working for an Alaska Native Corporation. Shortly after, I was talking hunting with one of the Execs, who was from "the village" (on Prince William Sound).

"Roy," I asked, "What do you use to hunt brown bear?"
"My .270."

I was kinda surprised, so I asked what he used for moose.
"My 270."

A little puzzled, again, because I'd heard so much about the need for small thermonuclear devices to take down Alaska's critters. So I asked about blackies, sheep, goats, caribou and anything else I could remember being legal game up here. Also about bear defense while fishing freshwater. Always got the same answer -- "My .270."

"Roy, why do you use the .270 for everything?"

"It's the only rifle I've got..."

LOL.

Be aware of the one with just one gun.

I might know know to use it.

Calling Big Stick.......

Okay, take this all with a grain of salt, just my opinion. I am going back to Alaska in Sept. for my second BB hunt. In my first in Sept. 2010 (same basic hunt), I hit a 9'2" BB at 97 yards. My guide had been involved in 40+ BB kills as a hunter or guide. The bear completely stopped moving within 1.5 second of the shot. It jumped a distance while biting the thing that was biting him. Once we approached the dead bear, you easily could tell from the terrain that it jumped 25 feet and fell dead. Before the shot, my guide had told me that, whatever good happened, it was almost certain that we would have to track the bear unless a second shot was made. The guide told me that it was the fastest he had ever seen a BB, who was not head-shot, die.





The round I shot was a 300gr NP, which was moving at about 2,550 fps from my .375 Wby with an offhand shot. I hit the bear through both lungs but above the heart. Nevertheless, based on my layman autopsy, the heart was seriously damaged, even though it was not within the bullet path.

I can't say anything for certain, but I personally can't believe that a .270 Win shot in the same location would keep the bear from going more than 24 feet.

Will a .270 Win or 30-06 work on BB? Absolutely. But I'm not one of those guys who can't shoot anything with more recoil. It just takes practice and focus.

One big distinction that some don't recognize is the difference between AK residents, who can hunt BB at will, and out-of-state hunters who have to spend great resources on a possibly once or twice-in-a-lifetime hunt.

If I was hunting BB essentially in my backyard, I would be happy to hunt with a .270, .308, whatever. But not if I'm spending a ton of money and time just to get there.

I personally don't think a .270 would have destroyed the heart of my bear outside of the bullet path. I can't prove it, but I know a 300gr NP moving at 2,550 fps did.

I have a 300 Win Mag and 7mm Wby, both of which I love. The 7mm is a really light comfortable rifle that weighs like a feather. I would take it in Sept. if I thought there was any reasonable basis for doing so. I just can't see it.

If I was hunting BB on a day hike, I might. Instead, I'm going on a moose, BB, wolf, etc... hunt that I can't do on a whim. So, I'm either bringing my .375 Wby or my .340 Wby. (probably the latter with a 225gr TTSX with chronoed consistent appx. 3,160 fps MV). My 7mm Wby and my .300 Win Mag have way more power than a .270 or 30-06, and I would not even consider bringing the 7mm Wby or 300 WM. I could be wrong, but I do think size matters. BB are big, and big bullets are bigger than small ones.

The German Tiger's 88mm gun and the M26 Pershing's 90mm gun would destroy any enemy tank they hit. The 75mm Sherman gun and even the Mk IV Panzer 75mm gun would do far less. Same principle with bears.

Bigger is better. If you can hit with it. And many, with practice, can hit well with rifles up-to or beyond the .375 H&H.

Phil Shoemaker, a very experienced Alaskan brown bear guide, posts on the Fire as 458Win. He has said a 30-06 with 200 grain premium bullets is a good minimum. He has used many rifles as a guide but I believe he used a 30-06 as his backup rifle during at least one recent season.

Edit: I just saw Phil's post a few pages back. Looks like he now thinks a .270 w/ 150 G Nosler Partitions will do. I would listen to what he says which includes the idea that hitting the animal in the right place trumps caliber.

This thread is so "Campfire"! The guy with the most experience gives a definitive answer. Specifically, 458 says a 270 with great bullets is acceptable. Then those with little to no experience, actually none compared to him, present endless thoughts about how he's wrong. Unbelievable.

I don't know how much experience you have, and what 458 means by "acceptable," but about six months ago, on this site he, shockingly, mentioned how superior the .458 WM worked on brown bear. He must believe it's significantly better than a 270 or his name would be "270." My post above suggests that a .270 is okay too. But "458" uses a "458" for a reason. It's more than the "acceptable" minimum. 270 works; 458 works better. How many BB have you shot? While you criticize others' opinions?

Keep in mind there are various types to bear rifles, all needing to be equally well-suited to their particular role. There are (not necessarily an exhaustive list):

-hunting rifles
-stopping rifles
-defensive rifles


...and they don�t have the same requirements other than the ability to kill a bear when used well. (The expectation that any of them will be fired is hierarchal in descending order.)

Well, the name of the thread is "Minimum Calibers for Kodiak Brown Bear"....what that means to me is not what's ideal for them, or what we would choose on a once in a lifetime hunt, but rather what's the smallest "minimum" caliber you can safely and humanely kill them with; not what's perfect. I wouldn't know what that is to be honest. So many of them have been killed with 30-30's and 30/06's,etc.

Natives of the far north have been rolling polar bears for decades with cartridges many consider unsuitable for a half starved fork horn whitetail.

Not surprised that Phil pegged it at a 270 with good bullets,since I know people who have used it on brown bear and grizzly...a long time before there was an Internet.The cartridge has also been used successfully on African lions more than once,so....ditto the 7 Rem Mag.

Perfect? Maybe not....but that wasn't the question.

Brown bears might be the only real reason for a 375 H&H in North America. They are tough, resilient animals,soft skinned,comparatively light boned and heavily muscled like all the great predators. Lots of people are afraid of them and rightfully so....but they aren't bullet proof.I hear that 160 Partitions from a 270 will go right through them.

Lots of them have been killed with 270's and 30/06's and I might add with bullets that can't compare to what we have available today.Like anything they don't live long with their vital organs torn to shreds.

MH
I wager your bear had a number of large blood vessels torn up by the bullet. Being close to the heart they were large volume vessels and dumped a lot of the blood pressure very quickly. Any good bullet in the same place would likely have produced very similar results, regardless the caliber.

I have seen it many times with brown bears, as recently as a week ago. That was a 25-06 with 80gr TTSX on a smallish brown bear, tremendous blood vents and a very short, very wide blood trail.

When guiding I usually carried a 300WM for back-up and used it a number of times. It worked just fine. At the time I even thought better of several different bullets...

MH, Our brown bear season just closed four days ago and it marked the 34th year that I have been guiding in Alaska. If I have learned anything it is that while they can be amazingly tough and tenacious when wounded, they are still flesh and blood and all it takes to kill them is a well placed, stoutly constructed bullet. The last hunter in my camp who used a .270 with 150 Partitions dropped his bear virtually within it's tracks ( although it did spin before dropping) It certainly didn't go 24 feet.
Does that mean the 270 a "better" round than your 375 ? Of course not, but it certainly means it is adequate for the hunter who is a competent shot.

Calibers like your 375, and my 458, may help compensate for more marginal hits or put the big bears down a little quicker and keep them down a second longer, but they are certainly no more lethal.