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I haven't been down to Otero Mesa in about five years. As far as McGregor Range goes, I'm assuming you're talking about the military buildup. Doesn't surprise me.
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On the other hand.... If you have not been there in awhile, you ought to see what McGregor Range is doing, and all the people and roads and construction they have going out there. Even pisses me off at times.  Yep, it really has changed.
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I cant find a good reason to not see that continue...and I'll do everything I can to protect the legacy for the future. Its the very least I can do.
At least we find common ground on keeping our hunting legacy alive and well. Buzz, you didn't answer my question about the oilfield pic you posted. Is it public land? If so, where is it? When was the field developed? The reason I ask this is because that highly represents the old oilfields of over 50 years ago on private land in some areas where the landowner didn't care about the footprint. Only the royalty check. If government officials let an oil company do that on public land, then it not only represents lack of responsibility on the oil company's part, but shows a totally new level of dumbass on the part of who was overseeing the public interest for the government. So please direct us all to where that picture is so that we can look into that matter further, please sir. BTW, posting a dozen hero pics of yourself doesn't give your posts more righteousness or accuracy. It doesn't even make your weenie bigger. It doesn't make you a better hunter, and lastly, it does show that you have not reached that point in your hunting adventures that allows you to relax and enjoy the outdoors and hunting without killing everything with hair on it... It's more representative of a 20 year old kid that can't kill things fast enough. But, at least you are passionate about hunting. I'll give you that much. In regards to the bolded part, you're assumptions are way off base. You have obviously not spent any time with him in the field or otherwise. Don't get me wrong, he'll trip a trigger as it evident. That said, I've met very few more gracious with their time and info when it comes to hunting. As far as the pic, I'm pretty sure that in the Jonah Field/Pinedale Anticline country.
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Its time to tap out Rock. Really.
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Joined: Dec 2007
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For the fast 5+ years, environmentalists have tried to get public support from within New Mexico. It was put to vote and didn't pass, so then they went to the state legislature. Again, didn't pass with a vote. So the environmentalists go to the federal level. Now we have this land grab that impacts more than many realize.
1. Closes off roads to local law. This area is used by drug cartels and illegals. When you see a pair of panties hanging on a mesquite bush, a lady was raped there.
2. It effects the cave crawlers. They now have to file an itinerary with the federal government and get a permit.
3. You had to pay to hike dripping springs before the land grab, now the cost has gone up. New Mexico is 48th in childhood obesity, we are 49th in poverty. Let's make getting outdoors more expensive.
4. It also gives New Mexico federal money to hire workers and upkeep. Yet another misuse of taxpayer money. Do your research, how many national monuments actually make a profit?
5. It's also unconstitutional. In the Constitution, it's written the federal government shall not own land in any state, it shall be forfeited to the state in which the land belongs. Boy it would be refreshing if the loudest mouths would get a clue before piping up about things they don't know. Have you read the bill that Obama followed in the designation? SEC. 6. BORDER SECURITY.
(a) IN GENERAL.�Nothing in this Act�
(1) prevents the Secretary of Homeland Security from undertaking law enforcement and border security activities, in accordance with section 4(c) of
FLO13B14 S.L.C.
the Wilderness Act (16 U.S.C. 1133(c)), within the
areas designated as wilderness by this Act, including
the ability to use motorized access within a wilderness area while in pursuit of a suspect;
USE OF MOTOR VEHICLES.�The use of
motor vehicles, motorized equipment, and mechanical transport shall be prohibited in the area described in paragraph (1) except as necessary for�
(A) the administration of the area (including the conduct of law enforcement and border security activities in the area); or How about a link to one of those "Votes" that were taken. The designation should be good for New Mexico, and state ranked 49th should relish the extra federal dollars coming in form of paychecks for federal jobs. The tourist that will show up. Show me the part of the constitution that says what you claimed in #5 of your post.
Last edited by 4100fps; 05/22/14.
I wanted to take a scalp, but the kill was not mine.
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Joined: May 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2008
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Article 1, section 8:
"To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;"
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,756 Likes: 36
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,756 Likes: 36 |
Boy it would be refreshing if the loudest mouths would get a clue before piping up about things they don't know.
Have you read the bill that Obama followed in the designation?SEC. 6. BORDER SECURITY.
(a) IN GENERAL.�Nothing in this Act�
(1) prevents the Secretary of Homeland Security from undertaking law enforcement and border security activities, in accordance with section 4(c) of
FLO13B14 S.L.C.
the Wilderness Act (16 U.S.C. 1133(c)), within the
areas designated as wilderness by this Act, including
the ability to use motorized access within a wilderness area while in pursuit of a suspect;
USE OF MOTOR VEHICLES.�The use of
motor vehicles, motorized equipment, and mechanical transport shall be prohibited in the area described in paragraph (1) except as necessary for�
(A) the administration of the area (including the conduct of law enforcement and border security activities in the area); or  The copy of the BILL THAT DID NOT PASS CONGRESS that you so readily quote and reference WAS NOT USED.
OBAMA USED THE ANTIQUITIES ACT FOR HIS EXECUTIVE ORDER....BUT HE DIDN"T FOLLOW THE CRITERIA FOR THAT EITHER.  There is a difference in a bill that is introduced and does not pass congress and an executive order.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,756 Likes: 36
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
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In regards to the bolded part, you're assumptions are way off base. You have obviously not spent any time with him in the field or otherwise. Don't get me wrong, he'll trip a trigger as it evident. That said, I've met very few more gracious with their time and info when it comes to hunting.
As far as the pic, I'm pretty sure that in the Jonah Field/Pinedale Anticline country. Six Stages of Hunter Development
The longer you hunt; you will probably find that your attitude and behavior will evolve. There are six distinct stages of hunter development. You may not pass through each of these stages and you may not progress through them in this exact order.
1) Shooting Stage
The impulse here is to get off a shot quickly, usually at the first animal that appears. This eagerness can lead to bad decisions that could result in the wrong animal being chosen, a poor shot being taken that wounds the animal or even a shot that endangers others. Target practice, good mentoring and more experience will lead most hunters out of this stage quickly.
2) Limiting Out Stage
This hunter wants to always bag the limit. This may cause a hunter to take unsafe shots or misidentify targets in the zeal to limit out. More experience and hunting with mature hunters will lead hunters out of this stage.
3) Trophy Stage
Success is judged by quality, not quantity. The hunter is very selective and will pass on many opportunities that do not match the desired trophy characteristics. Many trophy hunters focus on big game. The hunter�s patience and commitment must be highly evolved.
4) Method Stage
Here, the process and challenge of hunting becomes the primary focus of the hunter. A more challenging method, such as using a bow, muzzleloader, or handgun may be chosen. The hunter may choose to stalk or still hunt, rather than sit in a stand next to a feeder.
5) Sportsman Stage
The total experience of the hunt is what is important to the sportsman. What animal is being hunted, how it is being hunted, the immersion into nature and the companionship of who you are hunting with, all combine into creating a more sophisticated appreciation of the hunt.
6) �Give-Back� Stage
At this point the hunter is motivated by the desire to pass on the proper hunting values, safety skills and responsible attitudes to others. They want to preserve our hunting heritage by introducing new hunters to the sport in the most rewarding manner. The hunter may choose to join a conservation organization that improves habitat through wildlife management and promotes hunting. Perhaps I am wrong about Buzz. I was only going on the long post to the thread where he posted, and posted, and posted numerous photos of himself in the hero pose. I apologize if I interpreted what he posted the wrong way. I'm sure he's a fine guy to hunt with.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 14,985 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2010
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The fact that obama is obliged to do an end-run around Congress on all these issues just causes suspicion that could be avoided by compromise and negotiation he is so fond of talking about.
--- CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE --- A Magic Time To Be An Illegal In America---
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Joined: Feb 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2002
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In regards to the bolded part, you're assumptions are way off base. You have obviously not spent any time with him in the field or otherwise. Don't get me wrong, he'll trip a trigger as it evident. That said, I've met very few more gracious with their time and info when it comes to hunting.
As far as the pic, I'm pretty sure that in the Jonah Field/Pinedale Anticline country. Six Stages of Hunter Development
The longer you hunt; you will probably find that your attitude and behavior will evolve. There are six distinct stages of hunter development. You may not pass through each of these stages and you may not progress through them in this exact order.
Youth hunter in blind
1) Shooting Stage
The impulse here is to get off a shot quickly, usually at the first animal that appears. This eagerness can lead to bad decisions that could result in the wrong animal being chosen, a poor shot being taken that wounds the animal or even a shot that endangers others. Target practice, good mentoring and more experience will lead most hunters out of this stage quickly.
2) Limiting Out Stage
This hunter wants to always bag the limit. This may cause a hunter to take unsafe shots or misidentify targets in the zeal to limit out. More experience and hunting with mature hunters will lead hunters out of this stage.
3) Trophy Stage
Success is judged by quality, not quantity. The hunter is very selective and will pass on many opportunities that do not match the desired trophy characteristics. Many trophy hunters focus on big game. The hunter’s patience and commitment must be highly evolved.
4) Method Stage
Here, the process and challenge of hunting becomes the primary focus of the hunter. A more challenging method, such as using a bow, muzzleloader, or handgun may be chosen. The hunter may choose to stalk or still hunt, rather than sit in a stand next to a feeder.
5) Sportsman Stage
The total experience of the hunt is what is important to the sportsman. What animal is being hunted, how it is being hunted, the immersion into nature and the companionship of who you are hunting with, all combine into creating a more sophisticated appreciation of the hunt.
6) “Give-Back” Stage
At this point the hunter is motivated by the desire to pass on the proper hunting values, safety skills and responsible attitudes to others. They want to preserve our hunting heritage by introducing new hunters to the sport in the most rewarding manner. The hunter may choose to join a conservation organization that improves habitat through wildlife management and promotes hunting. Perhaps I am wrong about Buzz. I was only going on the long post to the thread where he posted, and posted, and posted numerous photos of himself in the hero pose. I apologize if I interpreted what he posted the wrong way. I'm sure he's a fine guy to hunt with. You did and he is. No worries.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
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I do applaud him and anyone else for their efforts to keep hunting on the right track. Seriously. Sometimes it's the small print that we disagree with here, but in the long run, we all have common fibers.  We can cuss and discuss the other stuff as long as we all remain on the same side and see who the real threat to our heritage is.... Which is why I posted THIS thread to begin with.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,756 Likes: 36
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,756 Likes: 36 |
For 4100 or anyone else that cares to see where Obama clearly violated the Antiquities Act and it's criteria... Sec. 2. That the President of the United States is hereby authorized, in his discretion, to declare by public proclamation historic landmarks, historic and prehistoric structures, and other objects of historic or scientific interest that are situated upon the lands owned or controlled by the Government of the United States to be national monuments, and may reserve as a part thereof parcels of land, the limits of which in all cases shall be confined to the smallest area compatible with proper care and management of the objects to be protected: Provided, That when such objects are situated upon a tract covered by a bona fied unperfected claim or held in private ownership, the tract, or so much thereof as may be necessary for the proper care and management of the object, may be relinquished to the Government, and the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to accept the relinquishment of such tracts in behalf of the Government of the United States. The example of government over reach is clear. Not only did Obama circumvent the U.S. Congress, but he is in clear violation of the U.S. Constitution and the very Antiquities Act that he used for his Executive Order. But, since when is Obama concerned with the small stuff like following the constitution he swore to uphold? Or let the voice of the people be heard and their wishes followed by letting their representatives pass the legislation in congress? It is THAT lawlessness and government over reach that people are fed up with... Not the need for a Natl. Monument that meets the criteria for one. No amount of fake polls represents how the public feels MORE than the elected representatives voting for their constituents in the proper channels of legislation. The false flags the polls represent is the defense of the tyranny that was displayed by Obama so that the liberals could say "See! This is what the PEOPLE wanted!"
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 783
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 783 |
Not arguing that point. I agree, but wish the locals could have worked this out years ago.
We have the same issues in Montana, every time we come up with a proposal to include lands in Wilderness and the same time remove lands for development, we get law suited to death. Seems the extremists on both sides have a louder voice than the moderates.
Tiresome!
I wanted to take a scalp, but the kill was not mine.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
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4100. It was tried at the local level. Many, many public forums were held. They listened to the reason and opposition, and even had a viable plan and legislation to follow... But they threw it out the window and did what they wanted anyway. (Your post was good.)
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 783
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 783 |
Boy it would be refreshing if the loudest mouths would get a clue before piping up about things they don't know.
Have you read the bill that Obama followed in the designation?SEC. 6. BORDER SECURITY.
(a) IN GENERAL.�Nothing in this Act�
(1) prevents the Secretary of Homeland Security from undertaking law enforcement and border security activities, in accordance with section 4(c) of
FLO13B14 S.L.C.
the Wilderness Act (16 U.S.C. 1133(c)), within the
areas designated as wilderness by this Act, including
the ability to use motorized access within a wilderness area while in pursuit of a suspect;
USE OF MOTOR VEHICLES.�The use of
motor vehicles, motorized equipment, and mechanical transport shall be prohibited in the area described in paragraph (1) except as necessary for�
(A) the administration of the area (including the conduct of law enforcement and border security activities in the area); or
OBAMA USED THE ANTIQUITIES ACT FOR HIS EXECUTIVE ORDER....BUT HE DIDN"T FOLLOW THE CRITERIA FOR THAT EITHER. There is a difference in a bill that is introduced and does not pass congress and an executive order. Obama,s proclamation was claimed to follow the bill I posted. I'll get the link.
I wanted to take a scalp, but the kill was not mine.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,756 Likes: 36
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,756 Likes: 36 |
You miss the point that the bill was not passed through congress.
You also miss the point that the executive order does not follow the Antiquities Act.
So, link away. It proves nothing.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
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Its time to tap out Rock. Really. No kidding. You may as well be talking to a Federal employees union.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Posts: 43,989 Likes: 26
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 43,989 Likes: 26 |
Toad, what do you do for a living? What the hell does it matter? Why do these threads always get down to this level? Down to what level? Fairly simple non-intrusive question. I wasn't attacking Toad, just asked a simple question to see where he was coming from with his obvious dig at me. Evidentially he assumes I receive farm subsidies which is untrue and also pointless. You are being overly sensitive but that's okay. I will admit I was an ass to Buzz last night and apologize for my 'tone'. Call me a farm subsidy leach or a welfare rancher or whatever you'd like, doesn't change the fact I don't trust the government. Peace-out.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
Sam, you asked me what I meant by some people "not wanting to lose free stuff" the other day. This thread is a good example. Some people will do anything to keep what's not theirs to themselves.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Posts: 46,260 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,260 Likes: 14 |
Down to the personal level. What a person does for a living shouldn't matter. What his arguments are should matter. And your ability to refute them. What you do for a living shouldn't matter, especially if someone else brings it up and calls you a "farm subsidy leach" or whatever.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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