Phil and John, There is a lot of bull**** out in internet land about Mausers and steel and hardness. What I know I got from Tom Burgess, Jerry Fisher, Ted Blackburn, and Mark Penrod. Tom thought the 1949 and 1950 "C" were the best 98's ever made. Penrod recently told me they were made of 4140 rather than the material the original Mauser's had been made of. Of course 4140 is the same steel in M70's and is considered ordinance steel cause it is commonly used for actions barrels etc. Jerry told me he does not like the JC Higgins FN's because he has had some that were way to hard. His concern has nothing to do with engraving. Mausers were designed to have a very hard skin and a soft core which is why they were made of steel to be case hardened or carburized, which means to have a hard thin skin. The new GMA actions are very good...made of 8620 and then cased so as to have a hard tough skin but a ductile core. They are expensive but really great. They are also very precisely made. Obviously, many of the double broached later FN 's are ok but it is not rare to find an old Weatherby that has set back because it is too soft or shot with hot ammo. Blackburn, towards the end of this career refused to turn a Mauser into a .532 magnum. Best leave them as 30-06, 270, 9.3-62, etc. Tom felt the same. While it could be done it was not preferred.
I seem to recall a thread many years ago on AR that Mr. Burgess either started or contributed heavily on that discussed the hardness issue mentioned here on some FN's. A search over their will likely turn it up but I cannot remember the handle he used as it was an odd alpha-numeric one that made little "sense" IIRC.
I seem to recall a thread many years ago on AR that Mr. Burgess either started or contributed heavily on that discussed the hardness issue mentioned here on some FN's. A search over their will likely turn it up but I cannot remember the handle he used as it was an odd alpha-numeric one that made little "sense" IIRC.
Tom Burgess went as Systeme98 -- but I think that was on AccurateReloading.com.
Okay gentlemen, talk to me about the actions on the old Browning Safaris. Obviously it is made by FN, mine was made in 1974. It is a 30-06 with the long extractor. Is it a "real" Mauser, a clone, or something else? Where does it fit in?
Last edited by RJY66; 06/17/14.
"Men must be governed by God or they will be ruled by tyrants". --- William Penn
I seem to recall a thread many years ago on AR that Mr. Burgess either started or contributed heavily on that discussed the hardness issue mentioned here on some FN's. A search over their will likely turn it up but I cannot remember the handle he used as it was an odd alpha-numeric one that made little "sense" IIRC.
Tom Burgess went as Systeme98 -- but I think that was on AccurateReloading.com.
I'm getting to the age where I'm not likely to "need" any more rifles
Gary, I'm in the same boat. Doubt I'll be wearing out any of my Mausers. (But I do have this idea for a Model 8 Remington project)... I digress,,, I have been lucky enough to snags a few old 98's and they do get the dust knocked off of em on occasion.
Again, I echo the posts of others, very informative thread!
Bob
Last edited by kaywoodie; 06/17/14.
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
Model 8, huh. You have a serious problem there! Just taking one of those apart and getting it back together would be more than enough project for most folks.
Tex n cal, That rifle you have pictured is without question one of the best ever. It is a 1949-1950 "c" ring action. Treat it kindly but use it. Don't ever part with it, at least if you want a fine Mauser. If you get tired of it let me know. Rick PS to my knowledge they were only made in 30-06 & 270.
I do not doubt it, it seem to be a fine rifle. I'd prefer a M70 safety, but otherwise it clearly was made by people who remembered how it was done before the war.
I shall have to work on getting it restored as much as practical; it seems worthy of the effort.
I'd also advise starting with the same two books Phil suggested, Lud Olson's MAUSER BOLT RIFLES and Jerry Kuhnhausen's THE MAUSER BOLT ACTION shop manual . R.A. Walsh's book is also good for those wanting to build a Mauser sporter, but has less overall info than Kuhnhausen's. Jon Speed is for those wanting t buy genuine Mauser Werke sporters.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Model 8, huh. You have a serious problem there! Just taking one of those apart and getting it back together would be more than enough project for most folks.
I luv em!!!!
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
While the CZ's don't have all the features of many 98's, they're close enough--and as I noted earlier, the H versus C ring thing is overblown. Would rather put my face behind either variety of Mauser-type action than any Winchester Model 70 CRF, even the latest actions with the gas block.
The CZ 550's are good semi-copies of the 98 design, with excellent barrels, and are usually very accurate right out of the box. The safety holds the firing pin back and locks the bolt down, and is quicker than a Model 70 type, so I wouldn't bother replacing it.
The only real downsides to the CZ's (if you can call them downsides) are a fairly complicated set trigger, some extra weight, and the scope mounts. I've never had any trouble with a CZ set trigger in over a dozen years of traveling the world with CZ rifles, but some people prefer to replace them with simpler Timney triggers. The scope mounts work very well but aren't exactly handsome, so many people replace them with Talleys.
The weight depends on you. For most I don't find anything wrong with an 8-1/2 pound (scoped) big game rifle, but some do.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
The barrels look like match grade tubes thru the Hawkeye and they generally shoot great without much fouling. (DBC does help with that)
I adjusted my 550 trigger to a very clean 2.5#'s, eliminating the set trigger feature. The trigger slot in the bottom metal isn't long enough to accommodate a trigger set up like that and on removing the action, the MIM trigger broke. In set trigger mode, the trigger will swing forward enough to prevent that from happening. I was amazed how easily that part broke. It wasn't in that big a bind.
Instead of getting another MIM CZ part, I got a Timney. Super easy installation and a wonderful 2.5# pull. And, the trigger sits farther back in the trigger guard and looks more like a Mauser should look, IMHO. I did have to extend the bottom metal trigger slot, which wasn't that hard to do with the Dremel.
I don't worry about the "C" ring either, else my main hunting rifle wouldn't be a 1950 vintage M70. I've never been one to get to frisky with my loads, not on purpose anyway, and after witnessing a couple of gassy episodes involving other shooters( check the adjacent thread on M84s), I'm pretty careful about protecting my eyes, at least at the range. Once I popped a primer on a .257 load in a sporter built on an FN barreled action, but the only damage was to my self esteem.
As far as the CZs go, the safety isn't that big a deal and I like set triggers as long as the unset pull is reasonable. I apparently don't worry much about the weight either or I'd stay out of the ice cream freezer at Food Lion. Like you, I don"t care for the looks of the mounts and would probably go for something lighter and lower. I'm very impressed with the one-piece Talleys on my M70.
I'm certainly don't have the wallet for sourcing collectible Mauser sporters...nor am selling books...:)
Speed's book is also a through history lesson from the German perspective about all things mauser and its offspring, if you desire to know. Was always interested by the Brit/German sporter collaborations. The chapter on post WWII American customs is a bit short, but you still run into them once in a while...not cheap...
Kuhnhausen's book is inexpensive and has a lot of good info for guys looking to build on mauser actions including a bunch of actions compared on one page.
Folks, I have 2 FN HVA's one a 30-06 the other a 270, the wing safety on the 06 is on the right and the 270 is on the left, anyone know the reason why? Thanks-Muddy
