Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Minimum 'caliber' for Kodiak Brown Bear?

I put together a .338 Win on a M-70 Classic Stainless, McMillan Edge for the same reason.

Scoped with a Zeiss 2.5-8 it weighs 8lbs on the nose, shoots the 225 TSX at 2900FPS.

I pack it more than occasionally during our 2 month deer season in the Adirondacks.

Bob, I had to throw that in there because, on top of that post being spot on in so many ways based on what I�ve seen, heard, or know, the rifle sighting �check� becomes a �what is the likelihood that I (the guide) will be warming the barrel of my rifle� type deal. You know that when a guide has to verify a rifle because the client�s shooting doesn�t prove that there isn�t a rifle/scope/ammo problem, things might get interesting.

The chapter many guides could probably write about client rifle sighting/shooting would undoubtedly be long and interesting. (�I had my rifle bore-sighted by the �smith at the shop so it should be �dead-on�. � Seriously.)

I will add further to what you mentioned by pointing out that the number of clients who want their guide to provide follow-up immediately is rather amazing to me, as is the fact that it isn�t even unheard of to hear of the client who requests that a guide �get the bear� for them, often due to physical condition issues more than anything.

That there appears to be no shortage of people that would go hunting with a rifle they aren't familiar with or even know is in good shooting order is troubling. That someone would engage in the pursuit of game that might get them killed with that same attitude is simply mind boggling.

Besides the typical hunters with new, overbore magnums purchased just for the hunt I have had hunters who didn't know how to load their rifle, a hunter who thought he had single shot rifles because he had no idea that you could put rounds down in the magazine and a hunter who sighted in and brought 300 Win ammo for his 300 Wby rifle ( we didn't catch that one until my son, who was guiding him, called on the radio the first evening to ask if we had any Wby ammo in camp )
You can guess just how well these guys shot at the range . And of course half of them claimed that they could shoot them just as well as smaller rifles and insisted that if the guide shot their bear that they would not accept it.

Bringing up a new, overbore, magnum rifle is the Alaskan equivalent of wearing a bowie knife to deer camp. It makes an early impression, but not the intended one.

To paraphrase one of my favorite Cormac McCarthy lines "And the guide looked at the dude hunter with a look the dude hunter mistook for total admiration..."

Carl Lane told me a hunter showed up for his brown bear hunt packing a .300 Wby, with a box of 110 gr. PSP ammo for it. It did say "Weatherby" on the box and there was a picture of a lion on the box, too.

Here you go, just the thing for your customers.

Further proof that it's more Indian than arrow.

Phil, Ive also been told by guides and PHs ( once taken into their confidence�) that many of these guys can't wait to drag out their new shiny weapons with Hubble scopes to show their guides what wise choices they've made�.

Even had one experience where we arrived in bear camp, chewed the fat for a couple hours with guide and outfitter, and finally said " I guess we should drag out our guns and check them on the range, so you can see we can shoot"�

The outfitter says " Oh, no worries, you guys can shoot"

Asked how he knew that he said simply " You haven't pulled your guns out to show them off, or even mentioned what caliber they are�"

Hey, I was talkin minimums here.

Gunner

I wonder how many Gunsite 270 grads show up all azzed up?

funny some of the misconceptions on the guiding biz

and while I don't have the experience that Phil does I've made some observations about the biz during my years of guiding folks

vast majority of hunters/clients are good folks but as most people counted in significant numbers the 80/20 rule applies, though truthfully I think it's more 20/60/20

20% of those booking are good folks and accomplished outdoorsmen and are most likely using a guide because it's either required for the species or they have the $$ to do so and realize logistics, scouting etc. are best utilized by those that spend a fair amount of time in the neck of the woods they're going to hunt.

60% are outdoor enthusiasts, and their skills run from good to not so good those skills run the gamut, from being able to walk well in rough country to being able to shoot and deal with inclement weather.

20% or less, the only qualification they had to hunt was that their check cleared and they are looking for a new experience

guide biz is a people biz, personal recommendations of folks that have hunted with you are the backbone to a successful operation, glossy brochures can't take the placed of solid word of mouth advertising

thus, I've not found it popular (for successful outfits) to treat clients like idiots

about the only time that happens is when the client truly is an idiot and no amount of coaching, or help will deter him from his idiot ways.

certainly possible to find a guide not well suited for the vocation he's chosen and due to his own limitation of either skills or self worth he practices trying to make others feel stupid. Those guys do end up in the profession on occasion, but typically don't last long in it, at least not with successful outfitters.


Odds are strong, if you feel like you've been treated like an idiot by your guide, you either drew the example above....or perhaps the problem lies closer to home.

if you ran into the former, my apologies and sincere sympathy for your bad luck


however if you got treated as an "idiot" by one or more of the many reputable hard working guides, well you have my deepest sympathy for your even worse luck (grin)

Interesting read. My money is with the guy who has a big azz bear for his avatar. Something tells me he might know a thing or two about a thing or two when it comes to killing big azz bears.

Good insight, well conveyed, Randy. (Slightly offensive even until/unless you understand the true definition of �idiot� as it may apply.)

Royce
Missed this earlier, somehow... and it is right there at the top of the best of list. Almost feel guilty having gotten to watch him do it right on brown bears twice in 13 months.
art

No comment about the OP's topic as it's been well covered - I'll accept PS take every time (though I'd use my 375 )

But, brown bear, were I to get to pick and go on a one and only one hunt, would be the one I'd do, spending only a few seconds before turning down the bighorn sheep hunt.

458Win;
Top of the morning to you sir, I hope this finds you and your fine family doing acceptably well.

Thanks for the chuckle and the fond memories your post brought back to me this morning. You see sir, somewhere in my collection of hunting "stuff" is just such a case as you mention in the first part of your quote - a .300 Win Mag fired from a shiny new Weatherby.

A now passed on shooting buddy used to help out the local sheep guide out by picking up hunters from the airport and then taking them down for a "sight in session" at the local range.

As I recall he said the accuracy wasn't all that bad considering the sport had never shot the Weatherby before that sunny Okanagan fall day....... what a way to start a sheep hunt out - perhaps much better than a coastal grizzly hunt though I guess?

That said Phil, locals aren't immune to odd behavior either.

I was at the same range one spring day and on the bench to the right of me was a chap torching off a shiny new Ruger 77 tang model .338 Win Mag.- the story is now officially dated - without hearing protection and displaying one of the more wicked flinches I've personally witnessed.

As is my practice I carry spare foam plugs and offered him some.

He firmly declined saying "there'll be no ear plugs when I'm huntin' griz at Bella Coola"

I don't even need to mention that his 100yd target looked like he'd been testing buckshot do I?

Honestly he was flinching so badly that he'd close his eyes and take rotate his head to the left, that is toward my bench, at every shot.

One can assume/conclude that most bears in the area were safe from this chap.

Anyway sir, it's gratifying to read that some hurdles faced transcend borders and all that. Hopefully you or someone got a grin from my story as I did from yours.

All the best to you this Father's Day Phil.

Dwayne

LOL, Dwayne
I doubt if he'll miss a grizzly at Bella Coola due to flinching, because about the last evidence of a grizzly on Bella Coola is in a cave on the north end of the island and is 2000 years old!
Hope you are having a great summer.

Fred

Fred
Not sure what you are confusing with Bella Coola, but it is a big valley going up into the mainland with a big river running through it...
art

Oops!
Had a brain fart- I knew better than that, been to Bella Coola to watch grizzlies a couple of times, and will probably be there again this fall- In my feeble mind, I was thinking Prince of Wales Island, another of my favorite spots.
Thanks for smartening me up, Art, I need it from time to time.