Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles What makes a Knights Armament SR25 worth $3500+ ???

Jeff I'm not even sure if the SR25 is available with their E3 bolt or whatever they call it. I was just pointing out some of the designs KAC has come up with. Their bolt design for the 5.56 is notable in carbines, the rifle gas that y'all ran is not hard on bolts.

I'm just trying to explain why KAC charges so much and still stays in business, there has to be a reason. Some will gladly pay for quality, others pay for what they think is a bargain. Same can be said for Aimpoints vs chinese knockoffs, they look the same and work the same, to a point.

Again, I'm not a KAC customer but I do understand quality costs. And "parts is parts" was Pat Rogers' sarcastic quote when describing the cheap hobby guns he sees go down in his classes. Just to be clear.

I will, 'cause I have personal knowledge of what transpired between Knight and 5th SF Group. He negotiated a contract and slipped some marginal accuracy standards in that the dumbazz officers who signed it were too ignorant to understand. When the shooters got the rifles and found that they wouldn't shoot, and cried foul. Knight, instead of fixing the guns, said my rifles meet the contract standard.

Could be very right, I think I have one carbine so far... might be close to 2 now with putting a whisper together.

I just don't understand why carbines are hard on the guns, seems, and I'm not all that smart I know, that you mess with the gas volume and then you are not beating anything up.

RE R/D, we all pay for it at times. Drugs are a big issue there, they take lots of cash to develop, and we have to pay for it. Or not get it.

Just seems you should not have to pay arms and legs to just monkey and tweak things. Its not rocket science really, but maybe it is.

I've not problem anymore with folks paying waht they want to.

I recall a guy shot on one of the ranges I shot on monthly, put big money in a KAC rifle, and then bought cases, yes cases of factory ammo. I don't think he ever made sharpshooter... The indian formulates some of the need or lack thereof.

Its not unlike John Burns rifles, ready to go and some folks just want that, they are not like some of us, gun nuts to the end tweaking our stuff the way WE want it.

For me, in the end, the big platforms will be fun to play with if I ever get that far, but if I feel the need for the 308, the MTU tubed 700 works as good as I need.

Some points here I have noticed and will comment on:

1. Reliability: They are, and when maintained/lubed, stay that way.

2. Good Handguard/Accessories: They are not. I don't know why any company would send soldiers handguards with flat-head screws because they WILL get buggered. The screws also will work loose quickly unless one applies Lock-Tite. The bipod mount also has flat-head screw and ships with an older style Harris bipod with out hand adjustable knob or lever. The suppressor is overly long and heavy and does not exhibit a consistent shift until it is shot enough to foul and lock up (not surprising when you look at how it locks up). My triggers break on average at a mediocre 4.75lbs. Their magazines are not durable enough for a combat rifle. Their rear sight is quite good but they front sight should not be integral to forearm.

3. .5MOA and 10lbs: The M-110 is neither reliably .5MOA or 10lbs.

I assume some of that was in refrence to what I said above. I was not speaking of KAC with the .5MOA and 10lbs thing, just what a .308AR can be in general. Their handguards on the other hand (the ones on the SR-25's and SR-15's), whether you like them or not, are some of the best in terms of machine quality and durability.

I see lots of guys cussing the flat head screws but that's one tool everyone has and that's why they use em.

I wouldn't buy one that is for sure

I agree, where is the fun in buying a $3500 rifle and having to fix the POS when you can spend $1500 for a similar POS under a different name. What all this tells me is that bullshite from Knight is just higher priced bullshite than bullshite from DPMS, S&W, Ruger etc.

Its the same thing with NightFarce. Mount one up on a Knight rifle and throw the thing out of a helicopter onto the rocks below, run over it a few times with a jeep, sink it in the swamp for 5 days, if both the rifle and scope rock on, then ok I see their worth $7,000.00. Or just buy a 5.56 DD and aimpoint for 1/3rd the money.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/steiner-military-3-15-50-rifle-scope-review-1.php

or just learn to use irons and ditch the aimpoint too.

It's only 30% slower, and its only your life.

Always curious to see so many without a clue so quick to announce it.......




Where to start.....


7.62 AR's have always had problems. Reliability, durability, shootability, size, weight, etc. But anyone that thinks that your hobby grade 7.62 AR is the same as a Knight is purposely lying to themselves.

I have had a long standing distaste for KAC.. The SR25's often shot like crap with some playing musical chairs with the rifles and suppressors to find a good combo. The early M110's were more of the same. But at least they work. Something that until recently just about no one else has been able to do. Also, the KAC rifles in the military were tested and selected almost a decade ago. No one had anything comparable.

Save the "my DPMS, RR, etc" work just fine nonsense. There is a difference between what is required for shooting pigs and people. Going out in the backyard and plinking a few rounds a year is not a test. Even rifle golf (service rifle, etc) isn't close to being a test of reliability and durability.


Here's reality- 7.62 AR's are hard to make work. They are hard to keep working. They are not just upscaled 5.56's. Knight knows how to make them work and though it pains me to say- their new guns like the EMC are fantastic.

There are only a few 7.62 AR variants that I have seen consistently work in a duty capacity- Larue, LMT, HK 417 and KAC. You may not need it or see it, but those guns cost what they do for a reason.








jimmyp,

I'm curious how much experience that you actually have with KAC or Nightforce? You seem hellbent on jacking about them, especially NF, and yet I only remember you having a 1-4x....? As well what does a DD 5.56 and am Aimpoint have in common with variable powered Nightforce's and 7.62 KAC's?

That is why I bought a SCAR 17

What is the typical "weak link in the chain"...

From an engineering standpoint; what specifically is going wrong?

Why can't I slap a pre-assembled premium BCG into my hobby gun and call it a day??? Where else are they breaking down?

Larue is nearly 3400 and they do describe some engineering aspects:
http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-obr-optimized-battle-rifle-complete-762-rifle-18-barrel

They discuss their chamber:
XTRAXN� is a proprietary chamber feature added to reduce frictional forces caused by pressure-expanded cartridge cases bearing against chamber walls. Facilitates reliable extraction through a wide range of temperature / chamber pressure extremes. XTRAXN� extends extractor life, while having no effect on the firearm's accuracy. All this, and it dovetails well with the OBR's world-famous accuracy.

Larue has a two position gas block to make the sure-fire suppressor work right.

If the reviews posted on the Larue website are honest and not fabricated, ( I assume they are honest ) that is one amazing rifle.

It's a whole lot of little things instead of one big thing.

I can only discuss my old AR-10 cause after I sold it, I was done with any 308 AR.
On it, they had a tendacy to fail to extract so Armalite sent a new extractor and rubber o-ring that helped a bunch with mild loads when everything was clean and well lubed.

Step the pressure up or let it get dirty and it started pulling rims. There was a guy named Slash on arfcom who sold extra heavy buffers that helped but I could not use anywhere close to the loads I used in bolt guns.

Mine was a ban era 16" carbine with a rifle stock and a mid length gas system. I could run a 150 gr bullet about 2650 fps and be on the edge of it working okay. I had a 15" Encore pistol that smoked it so it wasn't barrel length. My bolt load pushed the same bullet right at 3000 fps.

Now figure the AR-10 weighed over 10lbs even as a carbine and you should see why I stick with AR-15's now.

The KAC that a friend has shot ok but what impressed me was it always ran, even better than a couple of AR-10 rifles around here. I can't begin to tell you why they work but will say the cost is there for a reason.

You know...

I is starting to scratch my haid.
$3400 will buy a lot of loaded black hills for my bolt guns.

Form,

I said at the beginning must be some reason people buy them. I am personally experienced with two hobby 308's but not KAC. The MP10 seems to run fine, but ain't that accurate, the DPMS have not shot it enough but it bends case rims. I am not pointing to you however the issue is that so many people that post with authority may or may not have real knowledge. I got no problem with a lifetime investment of $3500 into a gun that shot bugholes and just worked then equipped with a Scope with decent glass that cost $3500 and would hold zero if you threw it out of a window 50 feet up onto the sidewalk, or ran over it with a truck, but I would have to see the video...

anyone got a NF 2.5-10 x 42 near Atlanta I can look thru? I am kind of in the market for a new scope. Yes NF has responsive service and yes they hold zero, and yes there is no reason to not put even VX2 grade glass in a nice optical instrument. Sorry but that still aggravates me.

Sorry, not near Atl. or I would, but you can take my word for it , they are awesome little scopes. I love my NF 2.5-10x42. It was a nice upgrade from the old x24 that the "milspec crowd" raves over.

I haven't tried the new 2.5-10X42 but have owned one of the first 2.5-10X24 NXS and now one of the newer 2.5-10X32 NXS compacts. The 32mm version is a huge improvement over the 24mm.

Yeah, 'cause us civilians are going into combat every day. Besides, I hear that HM's are quite handy with irons...

HM's? Tommorrow might be that day?