Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles I'm Calling BullSxxT

OK, I'll start a post that'll get some flamming probably but here goes anyway. I never did figure that I was the brightest match in the box. Flame on !
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<br>I don't believe that the new short magnums such as the 300, 270, and 7mm are any faster than the older 300 Winchester, 300 Weatherby, 270 Wby and 7mm Remington and Weatherby magnums. There, I've said it and I'm not sorry.
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<br>I think it's all marketing hype. I don't believe it ! I think all of you guys who want a short magnum because the vellcity is supposed to exceed the more current array of magnums in the stable are fooling yourself. If you want a new gun and chambering for whatever reason, though, I will be the first to support you. I've bought new guns just because I liked the fancy wood. Just don't give me the higher velocity rationale for the short magnums. I don't buy it.
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<br>As for having a lot less recoil.....Granted, there is a little less powder in the short magnums so recoil shouldn't be quite so high but I would also bet that the amount of recoil difference isn't discernable without scientific instruments. I would bet that any difference in velocity caused recoil more than makes up for any difference in powder weight recoil allowance. Also, typically, a short action makes a rifle a bit lighter so felt recoil for the short magnums should be a bit higher due to the lighter action. If the short magnums seem to recoil less, I would bet it's because the velocity is less than with the standard cases.
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<br>Come on -give me your best shot. Other than a shorter action and perhaps less weight due to the short action, I don't believe there is any advantage.
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<br>Now if I could just fine a short magnum in 358. Now there you'd have me hooked !

Rolly,
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<br>I agree,they are not faster. However they tread close enough on the heels,especially in the lighter weight projectile arena(an area i personally favor),that they certainly do boost what is "typical" short action mainstream performance capabilities.
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<br>I do not recall reading anybody's experiences,relating that the short action spawn is faster than it's long action H&H based cousins. The '06 based clan is cerainly second fiddle though.
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<br>My thinking is the short mags will recoil MORE,because they are typically housed in a lighter package. That magnifies recoil,as you mention.
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<br>Were I forced to cite inherent advantages,it would not be just ONE thing. I think it is a melding of attributes,that makes that case design sparkle across the board. I see the melding of a shorter/more rigid action,to a superior case design,that lends oodles of performance,in a very useable package. None of it ground shaking,but when working in harmony I'd have but a single question. Why a shortened H&H based hull,instead of the new spawn?
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<br>Personally,I think the design is long overdue and am glad a way was found to release it to the masses,without breaking the bank..................

Ah, now, Rolly...simmer down there...No flaming by me...
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<br>Call B$ on the short magnum craze if you need to (in many cases, you're right to!), but the whole concept was to put magnum performance into a short action package. In that respect, they do quite well..."Short Action" seems to be the biggest buzz word next to "Magnum"...
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<br>...What they have done is given wildcatters a brand new toy to play with: the WSM case. I can see this case getting necked all the way up and down the caliber spectrum. My personal dream cartridges on that case would be the WSM necked up to 8mm and 9.3mm. The WSM getting necked up to .358 ought to be right around the corner in the wildcatter's arena...But the big manufacturers' will likely leave it be with a 338 offering.
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<br>TXLoader

Man, I'm on your side! I have enough trouble with something I'm familiar with, why re-invent the wheel?
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<br>Pat

Pat,
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<br>That's what was said of smokeless powder,brass hulls and centerfire ignition.
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<br>I think there are many facets,that have not yet "peaked". Of course none of the changes/breakthroughs are MANDATORY. But I sorta like the luxury of pickin' and choosin,that which I think will best serve my needs.
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<br>With that mindset,I welcome all new findings,but that does not mean I employ them all.................

I like the WSM concept. I'd like one in 6.5mm and one in .338.
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<br> I'll bet there will be plenty of folks who are, say, less than well rounded in their knowledge of firearms, who will buy a lightweight Rem/Win/Savage etc. in 300WSM and be shocked by the recoil of their new rifle. Probably will not be able to shoot it well, and will go back to their .270 etc.
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<br>I don't mind a rifle in the 9-10 pound range for a hunting rifle. I'd like to build something like a short Rem700 with a 24" #5 barrel in a Mcmillan stock with either a Badger floorplate or an ADL pattern and a nice Leupold 3.5-10x40.
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<br>MM

the short mags, to me, are just another series of cartridges. i don't buy into all the 'more velocity, less recoil' stuff i've heard/read about. i think if you look at the short mags as 'just cartridges', you will be better able to evaluate their numbers and package, and make a decision on buy/not buy.
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<br>for me, a short action offers nothing over a long action. faster cycle time? never notice it in the field. inherent accuracy? perhaps, i'll wait for it to be proven. besides, i'm not a benchrester (don't have the money to play that game). the 7 rem mag, i was told, was not capable serious accuracy. yet, i have several targets that have some pretty tight groups on it...much better than my min. hunting rifle standards.
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<br>me, i'm looking forward to getting my hands on a 7 stw or dakota...i want more, not less.
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<br>yeah, the short mags are close to the 'long mags'. but, they do not beat the 'long mags'.
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<br>all that said, i won't knock someone for being enamored with their s.a. whatever. if a person feels more comfortable w/ a s.a., by all means, please shoot it, hunt it and like it.
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Rolly,
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<br>I too yawn when I read about the short mangums, and you are right about the velocity claims. However, like Stick says, they do have a place, so I hope they prosper.
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<br>Blaine

I haven't shot one of the new breed of short magnums yet. Just looked at them on paper. I think the dfferences are more in the mind of the owner than any where else. As to the marketing there is an old adage that says sell the sizzle not the steak.
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<br>BCR

All the hype surrounding the new ShortFatUltraSuperDuper Remchester Magnums puts me right to sleep. Having said that, I am reminded of a quote I read in some gunrag years ago "Every significant rifle cartridge has already been invented."
<br> I sincerely believe that statement is true.
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<br>ZM

Stick, me being a 6.5 fan I believe if and when there is offered a 6.5 WSM it will make up for all the misconceptions and ill concieved press wroght upon the 264 Win Mag. In fact I believe it will surpass any thing the the 264 has achieved due in part to the efficency of the cartridge design. I dare to say a 6.5 WSM will show the greatest improvements in ballistics of the entire family over their belted forerunners. Then again I could just be spittin in the wind.
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<br>Bullwnkl.

TXLoader,
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<br>Please excuse my ignorance but what is the advantage of a short action? I have a Browning A-Bolt in .30-06 which I presume is a long action. The A-Bolt allows a very fast cycle time. I can't belive the 1/2 or so inch shorter a short action is would make any difference.
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<br>Thanks,
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short actions are typically stiffer, smaller/lighter, and allow for faster cycling. personally, i think none of that adds up to much in a hunting rifle... but, some people really like their short actions.
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<br>of course, i hunt w/ a bipod and it has been said by others that bipods are uncalled for on a hunting rifle...

Deputy
<br>There are a number of valid reasons to like the short actions. They weigh a little less, and the extra action length can easily be used to add a little barrel length for the same sized package. It also moves the balance point slightly which only really makes a difference when one is doing everything possible to minimize weight.
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<br>Short fat cartridges are inherently more easily made to shoot accurately, also.
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<br>As to the statement that all important cartridges had already been developed... wasn't that statement made prior to the PPC line? I believe it was used in an ad some time back showing how foolish a rash statement can be...
<br>art

I don't see a lot of earth shattering changes with the new Short Mags. 2 things I like are the enhanced performance in the the short action and a really good magnum in my gas operated AR-10. There isn't anything magical about any of them.

If you boys are waitin' on "magic",it is gonna be a long and lonely wait. Nothing is magical.
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<br>However,for me personally,if I didn't have a single rifle in the closets and was purchasing new,I'd bypass the H&H spawn and go the short/fat route. That from 25 to 30cal,then I'd gravitate to the 338Ultra and the 375Ultra. Those cartridges express purpose,would be punchin' tags.
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<br>I find it difficult to argue efficiency,coupled with ample capacity,that yields esxceptional accuracy and is all housed in a smaller package.
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<br>Others may see it entirely different..................
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No real magic...I'm getting 200 fps more than my .270 Win out of my .270 WSM
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<br>It will not keep pace with a Wthby Mag, but I didn'y exect t too.
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<br>In my mind "marketing" and "Lying" are interchangeable!!
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<br>Mike

Rabid,
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<br>Might I infer that you are a satisfied customer and expectations were realized?.............(grin)

Absolutely!!
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<br>It was as much an excuse to finally get a Featherweight like I wanted and to see for myself what i could gain from the short, fat, column of powder...
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<br>I loaded my second 50 pieces of brass with the 63.0gr load and will use them for practice and possibly hunting, depending how much shooting I get in between now and then, then I will begin experimenting with 110gr V-max for coyotes, 150gr BT's(high BC) and the bulk 150gr Hornady Spitzers...May throw in a few 120gr XBT's I have left..Possibly buy a box of Blue 130 grainers if they don't foul too bad. I will check my beloved Partitions sometime too..
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<br>After some break in the rifle feeds smoothly also!!
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<br>No complaints here.
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<br>mike

STILLL waitin' here,on those 110's!
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<br>Giddyup..................