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Israel doesn't want peace - they want full control.
That is never going to happen when you oppress a people.
Of all the people to understand that, it should be the Jews first and foremost. That's why they completely pulled out of Gaza a few years back.
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Israel has had all the control they could possibly want and haven't used it...time for the Palestinians to take control of their own Governing bodies and be serious about peace.
you don't get peace thru military action. Something rings hollow about the only nuclear power in the region saying that if they don't fight they will be wiped out. I guess WW2 was an anomaly.
Last edited by dassa; 07/29/14.
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Israel has had all the control they could possibly want and haven't used it...time for the Palestinians to take control of their own Governing bodies and be serious about peace.
you don't get peace thru military action. Something rings hollow about the only nuclear power in the region saying that if they don't fight they will be wiped out. I guess WW2 was an anomaly. This isn't a case of nations at war.
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OrangeOkie: Certainly not in my lifetime - I would guess in another 100 to 200 years one side or the other will eradicate the other!
Sad that.
How about you OrangeOkie whats YOUR answer to YOUR posted question?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy As long as both sides look at it through a religious lens, there will never be long term peace. So what are the chances that either side can come to an agreement outside a religious view point?. . . only through military strength can that happen. Israel must totally devastate the islamofascist terrorists and control their own borders and security buffer zone. First of all the "Promised Land" (to Abraham) was given to the Israelites, with specific conditions . . . as long as they obeyed God they would be blessed. If they turned from God the land would be taken from them. We all know that is exactly what happened. The Mosaic economy and Priesthood was literally destroyed in AD 70 though the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, never more to rise. The "Jews" of modern day Israel are not the "Israel of God." The Mosaic age ended finally and completely in AD 70 and the Kingdom of Messiah Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God) was established in its place, forever and ever. This is the problem I have with U.S. government Presidents and officials making decisions about modern day Israel with a view toward some future return of Messiah, to reign for a literal 1000 years, in the literal City of Jerusalem, and sit on David's literal throne. All of the Presidents in my lifetime (except for Obammy) have been proponents of this religious view point, claiming that Israel has a Biblical right (supported by God) to the land of current day Israel. That is simply not supported by the Scriptures, but US policy is based on that false premise. I can't argue, however, that Israel does not have a legal and moral right to the land upon which their nation is built. It was carved out and given to them, under international law, by the British (who owned the land in 1948) but it had nothing to do with Biblical prophecy as many claim. God had already fulfilled every promise to Abraham and Israel with reference to the land, and he took it away from them because of their unbelief and disobedience (ultimately crucifying the Messiah.) So I support Israel 100% today only because they are a peace loving nation based on the same moral principles, freedom and democracy, and free-enterprise economy as is America. They are an ally, worthy of our support and assistance. After what happened to the Jews in WW2 with the Nazi holocaust, it only makes sense that those who claim to be Jews should have their own country and safe haven from islamofascists who are trying to continue Hitler's "final solution."
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Zechariah 14:12
And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples that wage war against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
You left out the most important part: "And even Juda shall fight against Jerusalem." Zachariah 14,14. Christians understand this to mean that even the Jews will join in the word's efforts to destroy Christ's Church, symbolized in Zachariah as Jerusalem. Seems like most folks interpret that differently: http://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-14.htm
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Campfire Sage
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OrangeOkie: Certainly not in my lifetime - I would guess in another 100 to 200 years one side or the other will eradicate the other!
Sad that.
How about you OrangeOkie whats YOUR answer to YOUR posted question?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy As long as both sides look at it through a religious lens, there will never be long term peace. So what are the chances that either side can come to an agreement outside a religious view point?. . . only through military strength can that happen. Israel must totally devastate the islamofascist terrorists and control their own borders and security buffer zone. First of all the "Promised Land" (to Abraham) was given to the Israelites, with specific conditions . . . as long as they obeyed God they would be blessed. If they turned from God the land would be taken from them. We all know that is exactly what happened. The Mosaic economy and Priesthood was literally destroyed in AD 70 though the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, never more to rise. The "Jews" of modern day Israel are not the "Israel of God." The Mosaic age ended finally and completely in AD 70 and the Kingdom of Messiah Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God) was established in its place, forever and ever. This is the problem I have with U.S. government Presidents and officials making decisions about modern day Israel with a view toward some future return of Messiah, to reign for a literal 1000 years, in the literal City of Jerusalem, and sit on David's literal throne. All of the Presidents in my lifetime (except for Obammy) have been proponents of this religious view point, claiming that Israel has a Biblical right (supported by God) to the land of current day Israel. That is simply not supported by the Scriptures, but US policy is based on that false premise. I can't argue, however, that Israel does not have a legal and moral right to the land upon which their nation is built. It was carved out and given to them, under international law, by the British (who owned the land in 1948) but it had nothing to do with Biblical prophecy as many claim. God had already fulfilled every promise to Abraham and Israel with reference to the land, and he took it away from them because of their unbelief and disobedience (ultimately crucifying the Messiah.) So I support Israel 100% today only because they are a peace loving nation based on the same moral principles, freedom and democracy, and free-enterprise economy as is America. They are an ally, worthy of our support and assistance. After what happened to the Jews in WW2 with the Nazi holocaust, it only makes sense that those who claim to be Jews should have their own country and safe haven from islamofascists who are trying to continue Hitler's "final solution." Well, you have the religion aspect just about right. Not much else, though.
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Campfire Sage
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Zechariah 14:12
And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples that wage war against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
You left out the most important part: "And even Juda shall fight against Jerusalem." Zachariah 14,14. Christians understand this to mean that even the Jews will join in the word's efforts to destroy Christ's Church, symbolized in Zachariah as Jerusalem. Seems like most folks interpret that differently: http://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-14.htm Whether the Jews are simply fighting at Jerusalem (ambiguous as to which side they are on) or fighting against Jerusalem is the question. If against, then we must exclude the Dispensationalist interpretation. In Hebrew to English it appears to us at best ambiguous as to which side Judah is on in the battle. From the Greek (Septuagint) to English, however, it's quite clear that Judah is fighting against Jerusalem. So where do we get the Septuagint, and what's its authority? The Septuagint was the work of Jewish scholars just previous to the time of Christ. By Christ's time, Hebrew was a long dead language, and those who actually wished to study the Scriptures required that they be in Greek. The Septuagint was the official approved Greek edition of the Sacred Scriptures for the Jews. To the Scholars who wrote it, there was no ambiguity as to the Hebrew, since they translated it into Greek as Judah fighting against Jerusalem. Jesus himself quoted from the Septuagint, lending even greater weight to its authority in his time. That being the case, there's no way to interpret the verse whereby Jerusalem means the literal city, which couldn't both be occupied by Judah and attacked by Judah. It only lends itself to Jerusalem being a metaphor for Christ's true flock, i.e., his Church, which is how Christians have interpreted it for millennia.
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so much brilliance here, we all should apply for jobs at the UN. Regardless of your religious affiliation, if a man shoots at you your going to shoot back and Hamas plans for this to happen. The outcomes of these events are thus predetermined and preplanned. Hamas spends an awful lot of money on tunnels and rockets, Israel does not go sashaying into Gaza unless the rockets hit them, Hamas has the better PR machine and each time it happens the Israelis are ostracized a bit more. Who knows maybe one day the blue helmeted troops will attack Israel. Damn shame its a capitalistic country with good technology for sale.
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Get rid of radical moozlums, check that, All muzlims and you csn have Pesce in the Middle East tomorrow.
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now if they'd only stop taking handouts from the United States, they'd be good.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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That's a red herring dude. Its got nothing to do with the money the US gives them. The Arabs want the property, the Israelis want the same property. Its that simple, never going to change until one side is all dead.
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Campfire Sage
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That's a red herring dude. Its got nothing to do with the money the US gives them. The Arabs want the property, the Israelis want the same property. Its that simple, never going to change until one side is all dead. We need to stop giving either of them any aid and let them work it out.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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when Israel is surrounded by a glass parking lot...
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That's a red herring dude. Its got nothing to do with the money the US gives them. The Arabs want the property, the Israelis want the same property. Its that simple, never going to change until one side is all dead. I understand, and my point is - we need to stop getting involved. People rail about government picking winners and losers in business, but are perfectly ok with us dropping money into the bottomless pit that is the middle east. Israel has no desire to have meaningful compromise as long as they know we have their back - and Hamas/Arabs have no desire to pullback knowing we keep Israel on a leash.
Last edited by KFWA; 07/30/14.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire 'Bwana
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That's a red herring dude. Its got nothing to do with the money the US gives them. The Arabs want the property, the Israelis want the same property. Its that simple, never going to change until one side is all dead. You are close. muslims, not just Arabs but all muslims want every Jew dead and they will not stop until it happens. The twisted sick book they follow, has an end of the world savior story where every Jew and every Christian must die and a muslim super hero/god rules the world.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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my loyalties lean toward the Jews, history easily demonstrates for those among us that "think" instead of "emote" that Islam is and always has been a religion of aggression towards all other peoples and religions. A leopard cannot change its spots.
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my loyalties lean toward the United States
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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The biggest problem, especially for Americans, is confusing Middle Eastern conflict with religion as is intended propaganda. Israel's genocide of Palestinians has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with ethnic cleansing and conquest.
Through the Middle Ages, kings duped peasants in to believing wars were of religion. That's because peasants had nothing but belief in God and Heaven. Existence on Earth was merely a process for them until they could dwell in the Kingdom of Heaven. Kings would have never been successful of raising armies of conquest of land and treasure had they told peasants truth. So kings manipulated hapless peasants by telling them they were fighting wars commanded by God. Even Ireland's 20th century battles with GB were political. Religion was adroitly used to mask hegemonic intent.
Americans are the most propagandized people on Earth. Most Americans ought not vote, for they enslave themselves by yanking voting booth levers.
If Christians fear any religion, it ought to be Judaism. I don't have to rehash New Testament gospel of Jesus. It has been repeated here ad nauseam. No Islamic country has ever declared war on us. Israel has.
Again, read the Talmud before deciding which side you're on. It will be of immense benefit to know who your authentic enemy is and what it believes.
But for some, ignorance is blissful so says the ostrich.
Last edited by SansSouci; 07/30/14.
�If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.�
***US President James Madison***
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my loyalties lean toward the United States What about a country that has declared war on the USA? Are you good with siding with it & giving it aid and comfort? Your tax dollars? But then again, Israel murdered only 34 American soldiers. Apparently many posters here are good with sacrificing only 34 American sailors.
�If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.�
***US President James Madison***
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The Jews brought down the twin towers? I didn't know that.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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