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OP
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You just can't please some folks. Here's an intelligent chap. ![[Linked Image]](http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg17/rockinbbar/isis-idiot-ferguson_zpsba3bdebe.jpg) Those of you that think of or are trying to deflect the issue of militarized / federalized police and their abuses as a race rather than a rights issue have very short memories or have been utterly duped by Sharpton and company. The militarized / federalized police have been aimed at American citizens that dared disagree with Obama's creeping tyranny for nearly six years, and not that long ago it was aging veterans at the very monuments dedicated to them that were being ruffed up and arrested for daring to exercise their rights to protest big intrusive and abusive government. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/VietnamVeteransMemorialWallNYC_arrest1.png)
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You mean the militarized police who were carrying Lever action Winchesters at a time when the Military was issued Trapdoor Springfields? Or tge Militarized police who carried Thompsons and Remington autoloaders, when the military carried Garands?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Predators that are double or treble in danger because of their privileged legal status and because they bar us from fully effective self-defense from criminal predators. Preach it! You two better pull apart and come up for air once in a while, else you'll start chappin each other johnsons 
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Police militarization is a symptom of a larger problem. The police are simply equipping themselves heavily to make the job they're tasked with as easy as possible. The real problem is the proliferation of freedom crushing laws and expansive police budgets that the modern busybody American people (tacitly) and their elected representatives (directly) have approved. Without those laws and funding, and the busybody [bleep] voters who enable them, we wouldn't have MRAPs on street corners.
My wish is that everyone who says "there oughta be a law" would choke themselves.
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Campfire Tracker
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Yes. If it weren't for LEO, we could get rid of liberal, commie Dimocraps all by ourselves.  The first responce is usually the best!
Eating fried chicken and watermelon since 1972.
You tell me how I ought to be, yet you don't even know your own sexuality,, the philosopher,,, you know so much about nothing at all. Chuck Schuldiner
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Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
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Police militarization and federalization is an symptom enabler of a larger problem. The police are simply equipping themselves heavily to make the job they're tasked with as easy as possible. The real problem is the proliferation of freedom crushing laws and expansive police budgets that the modern busybody American people (tacitly) and their elected representatives (directly) have approved. Without those laws and funding, and the busybody [bleep] voters who enable them, we wouldn't have MRAPs on street corners.
My wish is that everyone who says "there oughta be a law" would choke themselves.
I agree fully, with the above few changes. The police are big, intrusive, and abusive government's fingers at our throat choking the life and liberty out of us. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/cop6.jpg) "Only in a police state is the job of a policeman easy." ~ Orson Welles
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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to the OP, answering your title
in a word...NO
we're lucky to have the good cops that serve their communities honorably
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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How do you know when cops come into contact with you that they're good guys and not crooked?
Feel the Bern in your wallet.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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to the OP, answering your title
in a word...NO
we're lucky to have the good cops that serve their communities honorably He can't see that from his mommy's basement though
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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How do you know when cops come into contact with you that they're good guys and not crooked? you don't, and I've come in contact with great cops and ones that are pure azzholes. but come to think of it, you could insert any profession in place of cops and the same would be true. bad cops can't last forever, sure the experience can, if you let it. but there's a chitload of stuff and people cops deal with everyday that I want no part of and I'm thankful they're there to do their job.
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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And yes they are but so is government.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Time for an experiment? ID about ten specific areas of ten specific cities. Heavily police the surrounding areas - tough policing - but let those within the test plot go it without any interference. After 6 months, assess what is left. Well, maybe six weeks - or less.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The experiment was conducted, I think it was in 1969.
Montreal Police Strike.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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What I don't understand about Ferguson is why the shop owners weren't shooting the looters. They probably only would have had to shoot a half dozen or so to deliver the message loud and clear.
and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? (Micah 6:8) d.v. Musings on TDS
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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What I don't understand about Ferguson is why the shop owners weren't shooting the looters. They probably only would have had to shoot a half dozen or so to deliver the message loud and clear. The shop owners with guns didn't get looted, and they didn't even have to shoot anyone. It was the unarmed, those who were unable to stand their ground in the face of evil that got looted.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Tracker
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All it probably would have taken was a half dozen shots.
and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? (Micah 6:8) d.v. Musings on TDS
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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All it probably would have taken was a half dozen shots. That's usually the case. Criminals are not stupid. They understand risk vs reward. TV...vs getting shots.....yea, maybe we'll leave the TV.....
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Time for an experiment? ID about ten specific areas of ten specific cities. Heavily police the surrounding areas - tough policing - but let those within the test plot go it without any interference. After 6 months, assess what is left. Well, maybe six weeks - or less. Pick any areas city or rural and any group of civilians you choose and in 6 hours without police keeping an eye on them they would be raping, robbing, and killing each other. I am with you in believing we need more police presence to include police being able to enter homes when they like to make sure people are living the way they want them to live.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Time for an experiment? ID about ten specific areas of ten specific cities. Heavily police the surrounding areas - tough policing - but let those within the test plot go it without any interference. After 6 months, assess what is left. Well, maybe six weeks - or less. Pick any areas city or rural and any group of civilians you choose and in 6 hours without police keeping an eye on them they would be raping, robbing, and killing each other. I am with you in believing we need more police presence to include police being able to enter homes when they like to make sure people are living the way they want them to live. That's what happened in Montreal....but it was more like 24 hours.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Are Police More Damned Trouble Than They're Worth?
Modern police forces have become little more than a new set of predators from which the public needs protection.
In the spring, months before Michael Brown was shot and Ferguson erupted in reaction, whoever writes New York City Police Commissioner William J. Bratton's blog for him posted, "In my long police career I have often drawn inspiration from a great hero of mine, Sir Robert Peel. Peel founded the London Metropolitan Police in 1829." The post listed the nine "Peelian Principles" attributed (probably spuriously) to the founder of modern policing and formulated to combat crime in a rapidly modernizing city. The principles are remarkable both for the high ideals to which they aspire, and the minimal resemblance they bear to the actual forces over which Bratton and his counterparts around the United States actually preside.
Given the grim reality of law enforcement in today's America, it's hard to believe anything like those ideals could ever be met.
The background to the principles is no mystery. Peel and friends wanted to consolidate London's constables, night watchmen, and police forces in the growing city. But "people were suspicious of a large force, possibly armed," the U.K.'s National Archives note. "They feared it could be used to suppress protest and support military dictatorship." People feared this because the army had been used to do exactly that. In addition to the guiding principles, the police were given blue uniforms to distinguish them from military red. They originally weren't even allowed to vote to minimize their influence over government policies.
Interestingly, Bratton's version of the first principle reads, "The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder." But the original version says, "To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment." Maybe New York City's police commissioner drew from an altered-by-repetition version of the principles. Or maybe he just had difficulty seeing modern armored vehicle-riding, assault rifle-toting, police as an alternative to military force.
PeelerPublic DomainThe principles also specify that police "use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient." That doesn't mean cops have to be pacifists. But it's hard to reconcile a preference for persuasion with the over-the-top police occupation of Ferguson, or the promiscuous use of militarized SWAT teams to kick in doors as a matter of routine. Only 7 percent of SWAT uses compiled by the American Civil Liberties Union involved a "hostage, barricade, or active shooter"�79 percent were to serve search warrants.
It's also hard to reconcile a dedication to the "minimum degree of physical force" with the warning to the public in the pages of the Washington Post, penned by Officer Sunil Dutta of the Los Angeles Police Department, that "If you don't want to get shot...just do what I tell you." Dutta and his colleagues apparently don't agree that "to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing co-operation of the public," as the principles would have it.
For that matter, willing cooperation requires that the public knows what the police are up to in order to have any sort of opinion on the matter, willing or otherwise. So when police forces actively conceal the use of techniques and technology, such as cellphone-tracking stingray devices, from public scrutiny and judicial oversight, cooperation isn't even being sought.
And when that concealment is not an isolated incident, but involves departments from coast to coast deceiving the public on the advice of the federal government, it's obvious that, at least in this country, Sir Robert Peel's heirs have lost any interest in the idea that they are "only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen."
Modern saturation policing�when cops swarm a neighborhood or randomly throw roadblocks over major roadways�is openly intended as a form of intimidation. The Tennessee Highway Patrol plans "driver's license, sobriety and seatbelt checkpoints, as well as saturation patrols and bar and tavern checks" over Labor Day weekend to scare the public into compliance with a laundry list of rules and regulations. It's probably more effective at making people afraid to leave the house on a holiday lest they trip over lurking troopers. It's also at odds with the idea that "the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action."
It's not that there was ever a golden age of policing. Within a few years of the Metropolitan Police Department's creation, peelers were sent after Chartist political demonstrators (though they did avoid the sabers-swinging tactics that the military brought to such occasions with bloody enthusiasm). Police officers were frequently drunk and corrupt.
It's also unclear that the new police actually reduced crime, with criminal court proceedings continuing at the same pace before and after the creation of the force.
Rumble!Valerian Gribayedoff/Public DomaiWhen the idea of professional policing crossed the Atlantic Ocean, the force Bratton now leads trumped the British example. It managed not just corruption, but an actual riot between two rival departments in 1857. Fifty-three officers were injured before the state militia intervened.
But, all that said, there's a reason for the creation of such institutions as constables, night watchmen, thief-takers, police, and other efforts at keeping the peace. People don't want their property stolen, their persons abused, or their lives taken; they want to deter and punish the predators among us, and they don't always feel up to doing the jobs themselves.
But modern police forces have gone dangerously off-track. They've become little more than a new set of predators from which the public needs protection. That Dutta's column was actually a response to public outrage over police conduct shows how disconnected policing has become from the people it supposedly serves.
Bill Bratton was on to something when his blogger invoked the Peelian Principles. Those nine points, intended to appease a justifiably skeptical audience, were never perfect, and they've always been implemented by flawed human beings. But the ideals to which they aspire are a hell of a lot better than what we have now.http://reason.com/archives/2014/08/28/are-police-worth-all-the-damned-trouble/print ![[Linked Image]](http://www.cuindependent.com/wp/wp-content/gallery/photos-obama-visits-denver-police-academy/kaicasey_obama_guncontrol_denver_11.jpg) While it is wrong that it took the fracas in Ferguson to get the nation to notice epidemic police abuse and oppression, rather then nearly six years of it against ordinary citizens with a special focus on conservative and libertarian dissenters to Obama; at least now the nation has noticed. In answer to the question. NO
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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