Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Mule Deer and Lil Gun.

Tried Lil Gun in several of my Hornets when it became the craze. I never seemed to enjoy the same speed and accuracy that others did, and my trials ended with sooty cases and disappointing results. My favorite load at that time was AA1680 and a 40 grain Hornady over CCI Small Rifle primers. Accuracy was great, but velocity suffered.

Mule Deer suggested that I try Lil Gun with Small Rifle Magnum primers. I finally located a few packs of CCI Small Rifle Magnum primers last year in a little shop near Linville, NC. Circumstances dictated that I wait until now to try them.

I loaded 10 Hornet rounds of 11.5 grains of Lil Gun, 40 grain Honady V Max, and CCI SR Magnum primers and headed for the farm. Shown below is an eight shot group that averaged 2837 fps which is about all I expect from that little case. This is about 200 fps faster than my pet load with AA1680. These loads shot clean with no signs of excessive pressure. I will be interested to see if case life is negatively affected.



Interesting that the POI for this group was on about a half inch to the right of my other load.

Loads 9 and 10 killed two crows on the way back home. Pretty good day.

curious what rifle are you using?

Ed

CrowRifle,

I use 13.0 gr of Lil Gun and the CCI small rifle magnum primers and the load is as accurate as what you got with 11.5, but shoots flatter.

You may want to try it. I think I got the load from JB.

Steve

1234 - I shot that group using a CZ American.

7x57 - how the heck do you get 13.0 grains of Lil Gun in that case? That would probably clock at about 2900 + fps.

CR,

It is a JB load.

40gr NBT, coal of 1.93 at 2904fps and a group size+ of .58 (10 shots at 100yds) from Guns Magazine, November 2012.

I also use a drop tube of 4".

Try it, you'll like it!

Steve

CrowRifle,

Glad the CCI magnums worked out for you!

I've never had any trouble getting 13.0 grains into Winchester brass, even new cases. But normally I'm loading fired, neck-sized cases, where it fits even easier. The three Hornets I've used the load in had 21", 22" and 26" barrels, and velocities have varied from about 2950-3150, depending on the barrel length and specific 40-grain bullet.

In a CZ with a 22" barrel rechambered to .22 K-Hornet 13.5 grains got around 3100 with sub-1/2" accuracy for 5 shots at 100.

John. I have a small problem, I have been unable to find any Lil Gun for 6 months and don't have enough for Augusta gophers next year. If I can't find any between now and then which would you choose between, 2400 or 4227. Thanks-Muddy

CR, that's beautiful.

Great performance for only using 11.5 gr of powder.

Judd,

Whichever's more accurate in your rifle. Neither has a vast velocity advantage over the other.

Lil Gun works so well in the Fireball, Bee, and Hornet cases that I can't fathom using another powder. It is faster, cleaner, more accurate, with smaller ES than any of the others I've tried, including H110/296, 2400, both 4198, R-7, 1680, IMR4227.

I make sure I have plenty for stock now.

Yeah, that's been my experience as well, at least in the .22 Hornet and .221 Fireball. The only Bee I've shot much was a Ruger No. 1B belonging to a friend, and he used Li'l Gun in it.

I use 13 grains, too. I drop it, then put my finger over the mouth of the case and tap it in the bench. No problem seating. I'm sure it is compressed but I've not had any seating problems.

I'm not using magnum primers.

I've had pretty good luck with some standard primers too, including the CCI BR-4. Have also had some pretty bad luck with others. These days I use the CCI Magnum because it proved most accurate in a test with my main Hornet a couple years ago, and a few other people have found it works in theirs as well.

I'm using CCI400 in the tiny cases. They have worked very well for me.

To take the discussion in a slightly different direction, have any of you experimented with L'il Gun in reduced charges in the Hornet, say in order to drive a 50grain cast bullet at 1600fps? Would one still have to use a standard or magnum primer to ignite a half-case full of powder or would one be able to continue using the small pistol primers he currently uses with 2400 in that instance? (A moot point for me as I haven't stumbled onto any L'il Gun on the shelves so as to try it myself.)

Have not tried Lil Gun in reduced charges. I'd likely start with Unique if going that route, and pistol primers. Planning to pick up a 22 cal mould 55gr and shoot it with that formula to 2k.

John, use the same primers for 4227/2400 as with Lil Gun? Reason I ask is that I have thou. Rem 6 1/2's. Thanks-Judd

gnoahhh,

I would try Accurate 5744 for that purpose--and I've even seen it on shelves lately. I've had excellent luck using it for reduced loads with cast bullets in the Hornet.

A couple of others that would work in that velocity range are 4227 and RL-7.

I have 4227, it didn't work as well as 2400 and Unique (or Bullseye for really light loads). I do have a pound of A1680 (am I remembering the number right?) that I plan on trying in a reduced load capacity. Not that 2400 isn't absolutely wonderful in the role of 1600fps Hornet loads, but you know how it is to wonder...

I bought an eight pound jug of 1680 years ago. I only use it in the hornet. I have around a pound left. That is a lot of hornet rounds and it has counted for untold numbers of early deaths of sage rats, rockchucks, coyotes, and one mule deer. My hornets have all shot the best groups with 1680. Lil Gun may be faster but I will stick with the tiny groups with 1680.