Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Ukraine Joining Nato Would Provoke Nuclear War

Right on!
Then with Russia help we could kick Teabets ass!
Teach all those friggin monks a thing or 2...

What got it started. The Ukrainian president was a POS, but he was loyal to Moscow. He was about to be kicked out, but US supported factions got antsy and threw his arse out before their parliament could take a vote. So when he was still the legitimate leader, he fled to Russia and formally requested support from Russia, and Russia was happy to oblige.

Yes we were meddling in the internal affairs of Ukraine. So was the European Union and Moscow; everyone was screwing around, and it blew up in everyone's face.

We had mostly decided NOT to allow Ukraine into NATO before all of this so as not to provoke Russia (which was the right call). Now there are talks about allowing Ukraine into NATO as a way to give pause to Russia for a full scale invasion.

We're monkeying in Ukraine because our US companies want all the nice government contracts for the energy sector. Meanwhile Putin sees an opportunity to get Ukraine back (which has probably been part of Russia more than it hasn't).

Zero hasn't done bad with this one, he just hasn't done very well either. This is a situation where regardless of which move you make, there will be some negative unintended consequences. We need to find a way for cooler heads to prevail. I think the way to do that is to just do as little as possible and give people time to really think it all through. Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing.

The one thing that I seriously criticize Obama for on this is he should have got his azz off the golf course and into Air Force 1 and over to Russia to have a real sit down with Putin before this becomes a shooting war.

Russia isn't a 3rd world military and unlike most whom we've fought in the past 20 years, Russians have the stomach for a fight. Eventually we'll win a war in Ukraine, but that will be after Russia steamrolls all of Ukraine and then we'll have to take it all back. News flash, Russia is the power in Eastern Europe. And let's not forget that Russia is a nuclear power. None of this crap is worth all the risk we've taken. Why risk a war over some government contracts in Ukraine? That's just freaking dumb.

Why are the ills of the world always OUR fault? Move to a different country if you don't like us.

Because we're operating as a world empire all over the planet, messing with other countries' internal affairs. Notice no one's blaming Switzerland for anything happening outside of Switzerland.

Russia is extending her borders...

Let me ask you something, which is easier to correct. What Russia is doing or what the US is doing? We have no control over Russia, but we do have control over the US, so we can affect a change here for sure, when we may or may not be able to affect a change in Russia.

I don't say all the world's ills are us. If you read my point, I mention that the US, EU, and Russia were all meddling in Ukraine. We cant control what the EU and Russia do but we sure can correct what we do wrong.

So let me ask you point blank, is there anything in Ukraine worth sending your son to die for?

Yeah, after WE broke the agreement first. That shows the world that the word of the US isn't good for anything. I can recall a time when our word was respected.

Their fault I can't stop eating that goddam chocolate.

We have been doing it since the Spanish American War.

Hah!!! He's got you there Hawk.

Still, if you don't mind, I'd like to re-use this line...

DITTOS!

In case you didn't notice, war is what they have right now.



Helicopters will kill Russian armor and protect Ukraine. I said nothing about sending in troops.

I guess you think it is OK for Russia to blackmail Europe with their oil. I don't. I'd much rather have a strong Ukraine dictating terms to Russia for the transit of the pipelines. Time to take Russia down a notch. Russia is a criminal state and no amount of appeasement would have stopped their aggressions.

The whole point of them controlling the Ukraine is to control Europe though energy blackmail.

Interesting comments here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-09/ukraines-choreographed-civil-war-revealed-wikileaks

Ukraine's Choreographed Civil War, As Revealed By Wikileaks
Tyler Durden's pictureSubmitted by Tyler Durden on 09/09/2014 11:21 -0400

Eastern Europe Ukraine



Think the deadly events in a civil-war ridden Ukraine are proceeding unscripted, and without US supervision and/or direction? Think again.

Below is an excerpt from a formerly confidential memo, leaked by Wikileaks, and authored by former US ambassador to Russia, William J. Burns, to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The punchline: the memo is dated February 1, 2008.

Ukraine and Georgia's NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face.
So, if Russia does "not want to face" said decision which could and has led to the violence and civil war that is now a daily staple of market-moving newsflow out of Eastern Europe, why not let the US state department force the decision upon Russia?

Source: wikileaks

BS...we were heavily involved in central america in the sixties & seventies...Did you forget the fiasco down in Cuba?

From factories built from deposits of German stolen Jewish gold, no doubt.

Once again. You hate America so bad, why you still living here?

are there no current threads to discuss? Why dredge up this old nugget?

deleted, just caught what an old thread this is.

I don't hate America, not at all. But I also don't blindly follow our president just because it's America. When the president is wrong, I'll come out and say it.

Now Putin was wrong for invading the Crimea, for that I'll stand up and say he is wrong.

But WE toppled the Ukraine government.
And expansion of NATO is offensive to Russia; I'm smart enough to recognize that. Russia is the most invaded nation in the history of the world, indulge a little paranoia on their part.

And remind me why NATO was formed? Oh yeah, to battle Russia.

So view it from their side, or just a neutral observer.

We overthrow the government in Ukraine, and now we're looking at having them join NATO. Do you really think Russia has no reason to be offended? Obama is WRONG on this, plain and simple, and I'll call the SOB on how wrong he is.

I don't hate America...but I do hate her politicians.

We guaranteed Ukraine's security in order to encourage them to give up their nuclear weapons and Tyrant Obama the Liar renewed this promise. Then when they needed our help Tyrant Obama the Lair betrayed them by doing nothing. This betrayal runs through his foreign policy. It encourages our enemies and dismays our allies and friends. Now the word of the USA means nothing thanks to Tyrant Obama the Liar's incompetence and lying.