Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters MuleDeer- reduced loads

I'm killing some pretty good sized fellows with standard factory Prvi 139gr loads. I assume they're C&C. The ranges are just about all way under 100 yards, and they're all CNS shots, so penetration might not be as critical as if I was trying to shoot through hide, gristle, and shoulder bone to get to vitals. Something in the 120-140 range at 2000-2200 is about what I'm after. As long as it opens up I think things will work fine. I also expect the recoil would be pretty minimal for young and/or inexperienced shooters.

120 BT. No brainer.



Travis

I think Travis is trying to tell you something.


The other question is should inexperienced shooters be trying CNS shots, but I suspect you have that under control.

Yeah, 'Flave is like that.

It's a good question. I generally have him or her practice at ranges out to about 75 yards, which is the farthest distance between a stand and a feeder. They shoot at a life size peccary target - I get them from Midway - with a one inch splatter dot on the places they ought to hit. When they're able to hit it or come pretty close - still in kill zone - they're ready.

Anyone who's read my posts know I'm a fan of CNS on pigs in my hunting environment, and a bang-flop is a huge confidence builder.

As always, YMMV.

It might help to think in terms of I'm going to change my 308 into a 30-30 or in your case a 7x57 into a 7mm Waters and choose bullets designed to perform in those cartridges.

I experimented with several reduced loads from a 243 for my daughter last year. I didn't have any Trail Boss, but tried lots of other stuff. I settled on 30 grains of H4198 behind a 90 grain Speer Deep Curl.

I tried H4895 and achieved the desired velocity, but H4895 felt like it generated faster recoil and more muzzle blast. The H4198 load just felt more mild on the shoulder. I could have been imagining things, but I let her and my dad try both and they agreed.

Accuracy was stellar and it worked...







And yes, she hunted in her "lucky" fleece pajama pants!

That's pretty much it.

Great pics!

Thanks Mike!

The longer I load (42+ years) the more I realize almost all of my rifle loading can be successfully done with either of the 4895's. My 25-20 is the only cartridge I wouldn't load with 4895. However, RL15 is nearly perfect in my 9.3X62, H4350 is perfect in all my bolt action 30-06's, Elmer's 45-70 loads with IMR 3031 are almost magical,.....Well they don't call us looneys for nothing.

Back in the mid-1980's, when Eileen and I were newly married and money was still tight, I did all my rifle handloading with IMR4895, IMR4350 and H4831.

Of course, part of the reason they worked was we only had three centerfire rifles, a .257 Roberts, .270 Winchester and .30-06. No doubt could have done without H4831, but even in poverty was too much of a loony to give up the possibility that one of the other would result in slightly better accuracy and velocity than the other. But IMR4895 worked very well on the low end. I worked up mild varmint loads in the .257 and .270 with 60- and 90-grain bullets at around 3100 fps, and it also worked, of course, with 150's in the .30-06.

In fact they still worked when I started expanding my collection a few years later with a .223 Remington and .338 Winchester Magnum. But by that time I could also afford more powders as well, but still used IMR4895 for full-power loads in the .223 and for a reduced 200-grain deer load in the .338. The Speer Hot-Cor at 2650 fps does a great job on close-range whitetails!

Anyone ever try H4895 and Nosler BT 120's for a reduced load in a 7-08? How many grains of powder did you use? Thanks.

Max is listed at 43.7 according to Hodgdon's on line load data...

They push their H 4895 for reduced loads ( due to being given the data by ADI who makes the powder).. they say one can start at 60% of the max load figure, or work down to that amount if that is the way ya wanna look at it...

That is for a 120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip according to Hodgdon's web site...

Good deal, thanks. I'm going to try to load some softie loads up for a newbie.

John:

I'm resurrecting this thread to ask a question. Does the "60% Rule" work with IMR4895 the same way it does with H4895?

Thanks

Mike

I think you make an excellent point here. Sort of like someones response to using a 300 savage for elk when he said a "300 savage will do anything a 30-06 will do you just have to be 75 yds closer." Both wise assessments imho. It also points out some of my reservations about shooting game at extreme ranges. Do you choose a bullet that preforms at 600-800 yds or 100-300 yds. Probably not the same bullet.

Not exactly a reduced load but I use 48 grains of H4895 in both my 30-06 rifles. Reason is one of my rifles is a M1 Garand and I do not want to accidently drop a full power 30-06 in it. I have taken one deer with the M1 Garand and 150 grain Speer Soft point. I am sure you could use the starting load and reduce recoil a little bit and still take deer or hog with out a problem.

358win

The last time I loaded for the '06, I tried out a starting load of 46gr of H4895 with 150s. The book said it should give over 2800fps, which is better than the velocity the '06 made its bones with way back when. It shot great in the old Higgins and I was done.

One of the properties I look for when selecting a powder is a good, usable velocity at the low end of the charge table so that I can stop anywhere as I work my way up and have a good load.

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It's funny you say that, because I was in the process of saying roughly the same thing in regards to the 300 Savage for Elk thread the other day and the computer ate my response, and I never got back to it.

See, I got into reloading for the exact opposite of what motivates most people. Most folks take a 30-30 and try to make it shoot like a 30-06. I go the other direction. My 308 Win is loaded to 300 Savage levels. My 35 Whelen is downloaded to 358 WIN or 35 Rem levels. My 30-06 is downloaded to about what they were getting out of the 06 back in 1920's.

The reason? Less wear and tear on the rifle and the brass, less cost and a lot less recoil. When I hunt with a centerfire rifle for deer, I'm never pushing the envelope. I'm hard pressed to find a place to shoot a deer where I have to go more than 200 yards. I think my record is somewhere around 175 yards. Out of a treestand that number goes down to 80 yards.

I do 80% of my loads for deer rifles with H4895, and if I get a good group with a 5%-off-MAX starter load, I stop there and use the time I save for extra scouting.

Instead of firing reduced loads,you now have an excuse to buy a rifle with a smaller capacity cartridge.One of my favorites is the 7TCU.I get close to 2,700FPS with a 120 grain ballistic tip with about 28 grains of powder out of a 24" barrel.No kick at all.