Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire "Hell, I Was There" online

If that is true his real life persona must have been 180 degrees from his writing.



Travis

Mr. Gutshot.

No problem at all, I sincerely hope that I did not come across that way and if I did, please accept my apologies.

Perhaps our misunderstanding arises from a difference in the interpretation of the term "reasonable cost." A disabled vet and full time student on a fixed income cringes a wee bit at paying the prices available through Amazon... On the other hand, for around the cost of 2 lbs. of powder, one can get their hands on a copy so maybe I should quit my whining and pony up!

Thank you all for the lively discussion. The "Grand Old Man" definitely told it how he saw it and that has never been the most productive ingredient in creating agreement.

Thank you again and good day to all.
John

The whole story is told in the front of Keith's book "Gun notes."

The editor starts the book with a WARNING in large letters.

He cautions that handloaders should NOT try to duplicate the muzzle velocities Keith claims for his handloads.......because they are estimates.

Estimates. Estimating muzzle velocities and laying it out in print as fact.

This is symbolic of the entire problem with Keith's
writing.....it's impossible to tell what might be fact and what might be "ESTIMATES."

The WARNING that was given would be more realistic if it said instead.....

THIS BOOK OF COLORFUL TALES IS BEST READ AS FICTION.

I met Elmer when I was about ten years of age. He was really, really kind to this gunny kid and I totally appreciated that.

We kept up a correspondence for many years. He coached my big game hunting and got me into handloading. Eventually, he was responsible for my first article ... the .338-'06 one in Handloader Magazine.

Karen and I visited the Keith's in salmon, Idaho just after our honeymoon and he loved my new lassie.

I wish I'd kept all of the handwritten letters he sent me, but I have only a couple. I DID, however, keep every single book he ever sent me.

This is in the front of the copy of Hell I Was There that my friend Elmer sent me as a gift. I treasure it.



What would a copy of Hell I Was There be worth to the original person to whom it was sent as a present? .... PRICELESS.

Blessings,

Steve

Well, of course we all try to get a bargain when we can. Sometimes if you keep checking Amazon and e-Bay one will turn up at a surprisingly low price (but you have to keep at it diligently).

Prices now are not that high when adjusted for inflation and compared to the first issue prices.

Also, the sooner the available copies are purchased, the sooner someone will issue a new and reasonably priced paperback copy.

When O'Connor was a kid, there was a time his family (divorced mom and siblings) lived in a tent in Nogales, Territory of Arizona (not yet a state.)
When WWI broke out he lied about his age and joined the Army at age 15. He got kicked out due to chronic tuberculosis. He joined the Navy a couple of years later and served as a hospital corpsman.
The older, successful O'Connor went on guided hunts. The younger O'Connor was a pretty tough desert rat. Some of his hunts for Desert Sheep in Mexico were pretty close to exercises in survival.

Keith had a hell of a rough time too, especially the part about being in a fire as a kid. I think Keith had the tougher time of it. But, O'Connor was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth and he earned what he achieved.

I don't pick a side in Keith/O'Connor. There is a lot to be learned from both.

That blow hard always gave me a chuckle.

There was a time when not everyone owned a chronograph, in fact a time when the ones available were not so easy to use and existed basically in HP white labs or ammunition factories only.re

There was a time when all the sporting chamberings we take for granted today, did not yet exist because no one had invented them.

There was a time before laser rangefinders, and bullet drop compensators and drop and drift charts.

That was Elmer's time. He was an interesting man that lived in interesting times and who did a lot of experimentation on bullets and loads and shared what he learned with others through his writings. Some can appreciate who and what he was, others can't.

Your best post - ever!

Wow Steve, I could only WISH to have been a correspondent with ole Elmer! My wife gave me a copy of the book many years ago when it came out. I haven't re-read it lately but I can remember just shaking my head after reading many passages thinking, "man, he was one tough Mofo!"

At the time he was writing almost no one had chronographs so I can understand that loads' estimated velocities didn't actually turn out that way when run over a chrono. Though the velocities of some of his loads may have been lower than estimated they were ones that WORKED regardless of what their actual velocities were.

I think many of us have been disappointed when our "pet loads" of many years didn't reach expectations when we finally got our own chrono and tested them.

Dang it, reading this thread makes me want to go out and buy a S&W Model 29.

I doubt if Elmer where alive today that he'd be asking for a S&W M29 on the Campfire....

Folks,

This has definitely excited more discussion than I anticipated and I wish you all joy of it! If anyone knows of a copy available, I'd love to get my hands on one. Thank you all for the frank and honest discussion of Elmer's writings. Good, bad, or indifferent, I remain a fan of everything he ever wrote.

Have a blessed weekend.
John

He was an interesting man who lived in interesting times and his "ESTIMATES" for the velocities of his loads were always HIGH, not low.

Which is why editors have to issue "DANGER" warnings.

'Nuff said.

I'm guessing he's likely the reason kids have to wear helmets and elbow pads on a bicycle too.

When good decomes evil and evil good, unbecoming will become becoming. I guess, not yet.

Because he shot too many .505 Gibbs loads without a helmet?

That would explain a lot.