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Campfire Ranger
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LOL, an accessory to murder. In the Financial Services, if a broker gets busted, he supervisor can expect to loose his license as well. If you are a police supervisor/Manger, and your officer(s) kill someone due to inadequate or improper training, they should be held criminally responsible for the death. Large payouts of tax payer money doesn't seem to catch their attention, but take an incident such as this, put the officer, SGT, and Lieutenant behind bars, the later two for their failure to train and supervise, and police would start viewing these incidents in a different light, and training to a more balanced approach to risk management. Perhaps you are right that accessory to murder is not the correct charge. A reckless action that causes the death of person is perhaps better captured by a charge of Man Slaughter. Did you miss where the cade was presented to a Grand Jury and they No- billed it?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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LOL, an accessory to murder. In the Financial Services, if a broker gets busted, he supervisor can expect to loose his license as well. If you are a police supervisor/Manger, and your officer(s) kill someone due to inadequate or improper training, they should be held criminally responsible for the death. Large payouts of tax payer money doesn't seem to catch their attention, but take an incident such as this, put the officer, SGT, and Lieutenant behind bars, the later two for their failure to train and supervise, and police would start viewing these incidents in a different light, and training to a more balanced approach to risk management. Perhaps you are right that accessory to murder is not the correct charge. A reckless action that causes the death of person is perhaps better captured by a charge of Man Slaughter. Did you miss where the cade was presented to a Grand Jury and they No- billed it? I did not. And in this instance I disagree with the Grand Jury. As one article mentioned this killing was "within the officers training", they had just been through "active shooter" training two weeks prior. Just a couple of problems here. This wasn't an active shooter, it appears the officers NEVER considered for a moment the initial reports were wrong (hint, the saying within the INTEL community is "initial reports are always wrong"), and they didn't even take the time to read the shoppers, or realize they were not hearing gunshot before opening fire. So, if a person negligently releases a wild animal upon the public that kills someone, what's the proper charge?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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Parents of adults who make bad decisions should also be held criminally liable? They had a pretty big part in shaping the decision making ability of that adult.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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The problem I have is that as long as a cop can shoot anyone that he feels to be a threat with no repercussions, all we will ever have in these events is hindsight. Repercussions would cause more foresight. Best not to shoot anyone you feel is a threat. Take a bullet first, then return fire. Not at all. They could have used a bull horn or the store intercom to tell him to put the gun down and no one would have been hurt. They didn't think in this manner because there are no repercussions. In order to be charged with a crime a cop would have to basically just execute an unarmed man, and even then it would have to be on video. Repercussions for a bad shoot will cause more forethought. The actions of these cops were as if there was an active shooter who had already shot people. In such a case, their actions would be completely justified. That is not what happened here, but the cops were jacked up so much from active shooter training that they saw what wasn't there.
Last edited by R_H_Clark; 09/25/14.
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
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LOL, an accessory to murder. In the Financial Services, if a broker gets busted, he supervisor can expect to loose his license as well. If you are a police supervisor/Manger, and your officer(s) kill someone due to inadequate or improper training, they should be held criminally responsible for the death. Large payouts of tax payer money doesn't seem to catch their attention, but take an incident such as this, put the officer, SGT, and Lieutenant behind bars, the later two for their failure to train and supervise, and police would start viewing these incidents in a different light, and training to a more balanced approach to risk management. Perhaps you are right that accessory to murder is not the correct charge. A reckless action that causes the death of person is perhaps better captured by a charge of Man Slaughter. Did you miss where the cade was presented to a Grand Jury and they No- billed it? I did not. And in this instance I disagree with the Grand Jury. As one article mentioned this killing was "within the officers training", they had just been through "active shooter" training two weeks prior. Just a couple of problems here. This wasn't an active shooter, it appears the officers NEVER considered for a moment the initial reports were wrong (hint, the saying within the INTEL community is "initial reports are always wrong"), and they didn't even take the time to read the shoppers, or realize they were not hearing gunshot before opening fire. So, if a person negligently releases a wild animal upon the public that kills someone, what's the proper charge? 1How many "active shooter training courses have you been through? 2. Just because they didn't hear shots does not mean there is no shooter I can't make any opinion on what theu thought, especially with a measely 1:41 worth of Video. But it appears that the Grand Jury that was able to hear everuthing the DA had, did not feel it warranted a true bill. End of story
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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The problem I have is that as long as a cop can shoot anyone that he feels to be a threat with no repercussions, all we will ever have in these events is hindsight. Repercussions would cause more foresight. Best not to shoot anyone you feel is a threat. Take a bullet first, then return fire. Not at all. They could have used a bull horn or the store intercom to tell him to put the gun down and no one would have been hurt. They didn't think in this manner because there are no repercussions. In order to be charged with a crime a cop would have to basically just execute an unarmed man, and even then it would have to be on video They did execute an essentially unarmed man on video.. Repercussions for a bad shoot will cause more forethought.The actions of these cops were as if there was an active shooter who had already shot people. In such a case, their actions would be completely justified. That is not what happened here, but the cops were jacked up so much from active shooter training that they saw what wasn't there.You my friend....nailed it.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Posts: 131,718 Likes: 18
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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Take a bullet first, then return fire. Not at all. They could have used a bull horn or the store intercom to tell him to put the gun down and no one would have been hurt. That was the first thought that occurred to me, as well. But, like you say, in the vast majority of cases there are no consequences for wrongful death by cop, so what motivation is there for cops to think of non-lethal approaches? None. To them, due to the modern police culture, civilian life is cheap.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I can't make any opinion on what they thought, especially with a measely 1:41 worth of Video.
Of course not. That's the stick you fingers in your ears, lalalalalalalala, of most LEO's when confronted with a set of facts not favorable to their profession. When is the last time you admitted on this forum an officer was wrong? However, despite the fact that I am throwing hammers at Blue tonight, he's made that exact admission several times in the past and was willing to call out, what in his opinion, was bad police work. I respect that. Are you saying these boys acted properly, that this is the way you were trained, and you would have done the same thing??? And if you are, how is this causing you to rethink your training???
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
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They did execute an essentially unarmed man on video That's simply false He was armed with a deadly weapon If you don't believe that, let me shoot you with my pellet rifle
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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that right there was downright scary and looked all wrong to me. that could have been any big kid in the store carrying around an airsoft gun. i'm all for LE, but that looked dead wrong to me.
My diploma is a DD214
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I can't make any opinion on what they thought, especially with a measely 1:41 worth of Video.
Of course not. That's the stick you fingers in your ears, lalalalalalalala, of most LEO's when confronted with a set of facts not favorable to their profession. When is the last time you admitted on this forum an officer was wrong? However, despite the fact that I am throwing hammers at Blue tonight, he's made that exact admission several times in the past and was willing to call out, what in his opinion, was bad police work. I respect that. Are you saying these boys acted properly, that this is the way you were trained, and you would have done the same thing??? And if you are, how is this causing you to rethink your training??? If someone that appears armed, and makes a furtive movement that i take to mean they intend to harm me, then they are getting shot. That bull horn from a parking lot is pure hollywood, And I have called bad police work what it was. Hell i've testified against other cops, that includes cops in my own dept. Answer my question how many active shooter teaing courses have you been through?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,986
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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They did execute an essentially unarmed man on video That's simply false He was armed with a deadly weapon If you don't believe that, let me shoot you with my pellet rifle I've spent many hours with a pellet rifle. Did you know that with a pellet, that model of pellet rifle will not penetrate neither a skunks skull, nor a deer skull from the front? Now wth BB's at point blank range you can do it with the Daisey 880, but not the Crossman 760. Are you claiming this pellet rifle will penetrate body armor? And keep in mind the 760 is a multi-pump system. It takes 10 pumps to achieve full power, making it a single shot system. It's not exactly an AKM.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,986
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I can't make any opinion on what they thought, especially with a measely 1:41 worth of Video.
Of course not. That's the stick you fingers in your ears, lalalalalalalala, of most LEO's when confronted with a set of facts not favorable to their profession. When is the last time you admitted on this forum an officer was wrong? However, despite the fact that I am throwing hammers at Blue tonight, he's made that exact admission several times in the past and was willing to call out, what in his opinion, was bad police work. I respect that. Are you saying these boys acted properly, that this is the way you were trained, and you would have done the same thing??? And if you are, how is this causing you to rethink your training??? If someone that appears armed, and makes a furtive movement that i take to mean they intend to harm me, then they are getting shot. That bull horn from a parking lot is pure hollywood, And I have called bad police work what it was. Hell i've testified against other cops, that includes cops in my own dept. Answer my question how many active shooter teaing courses have you been through? Then look at the tape again and show me the "fugitive movement". He never faced the officers before he was shot.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Posts: 10,972
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 10,972 |
Take a bullet first, then return fire. Not at all. They could have used a bull horn or the store intercom to tell him to put the gun down and no one would have been hurt. That was the first thought that occurred to me, as well. But, like you say, in the vast majority of cases there are no consequences for wrongful death by cop, so what motivation is there for cops to think of non-lethal approaches? None. To them, due to the modern police culture, civilian life is cheap. I don't think cops ever go into a situation like this just not giving a crap if they kill someone or not. I think they simply act in the manner they have been trained to act. We live in hard times. I would like to see changes, but there are no easy answers.
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,546 Likes: 1 |
it could start by not putting yourself in a situation where you are acting on reflex and not thinking
Rambo mode isn't going over very well with the general public right now.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
I can't make any opinion on what they thought, especially with a measely 1:41 worth of Video.
Of course not. That's the stick you fingers in your ears, lalalalalalalala, of most LEO's when confronted with a set of facts not favorable to their profession. When is the last time you admitted on this forum an officer was wrong? However, despite the fact that I am throwing hammers at Blue tonight, he's made that exact admission several times in the past and was willing to call out, what in his opinion, was bad police work. I respect that. Are you saying these boys acted properly, that this is the way you were trained, and you would have done the same thing??? And if you are, how is this causing you to rethink your training??? If someone that appears armed, and makes a furtive movement that i take to mean they intend to harm me, then they are getting shot. That bull horn from a parking lot is pure hollywood, And I have called bad police work what it was. Hell i've testified against other cops, that includes cops in my own dept. Answer my question how many active shooter teaing courses have you been through? Then look at the tape again and show me the "fugitive movement". He never faced the officers before he was shot. Its furtive. And according to the evidence presented at the Gj he was shot before dropping the "air gun" after failing to follow orders to drop said gun. 18 witnesses testified to that Grand Jury. With that many testimonies, if the GJ had had enough to begin to think vharges were warrneted they would have handed up a bill. Yep? The feds are looking into it at the request of the suspects family. Based solely on...... Whether racism played a factor. Thats a good hint that their attorney knows it was a good shoot
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
For the sake of argument, we're not talking about parents giving kids beer.
We're talking about adults going to prison for the bad decisions that other adults make. Which is crazy.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,986
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,986 |
Show me, on the tape, where he created a threat to the officer.
Please prove the time marker where you see it.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,972
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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it could start by not putting yourself in a situation where you are acting on reflex and not thinking
Rambo mode isn't going over very well with the general public right now. I completely agree. I can just see both sides with all the crazy things going on in the world today. Still, I would rather not live in a militarized police state. I would much rather trust keeping myself safe than having to wonder if I might get shot at anytime by a nervous cop. There was another story just today on an Alabama Forum where a guy was shot at a traffic stop because he took his wallet out like he was ordered to do. Thankfully he wasn't killed.
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