Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Question: appropriate punishment for poaching an elk???

Ted Nuggent hunting in CA again?

Fine him 10.00 or 10 days in jail sent him to tracking school and tell him not to do it again.

I can't say what he would or should get in Cali, but in MT it would go like this:
The first elk is unlawful to possess, you may only pickup antlers from dead elk that have died naturally. Before any one says that there is no way to prove it... well he confessed.
Count I: unlawful possession of a trophy elk.
Elk was unlawfully in his possession and he bragged about it. If actual trophy it would be a felony here. Mandatory 36 months loss of privileges and $8000 statutory restitution. Fines of up to $50,000 and prison up to 5 years. Would probably pay $2500 to $5000 depending on financial status and be put on probation for 5 years.

Count II: overlimit- fine of $300-$1000 and loss of privileges for 24 months. Restitution of $1000.
He should loose both antler racks and the meat.

If his biggest concern was his hunting privileges then I would agree to only recommend the minimum 3 years but he would pay a a respectable fine, full restitution and be on probation for the full 5 years.

Should he probably get more, yes. Will defense counsel argue for less and cry that defendant is a poor misunderstood choir boy that just had a momentary lapse of judgment, Yes. Is the penalty enough to alter behavior?

Wonder why financial status matters?

Because to some a $5000 fine is pocket change, while to others it's 25% of their yearly income

So, what your saying is, the punishment boils down to revenue.


I live in a small county, and law enforcement here from the SO and local PD is not aggressive, they mostly write reports and hap hazardly f*ck with dope dealers that don't pay the right people, it's got more to do with politics and getting re-elected than any thing. The game wardens are another story, those guys are relentless in their pursuit of ANYTHING that may even be partially construed as illegal. They will prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law for hunting 99 yards from corn (100 is legal), I wonder why that is?

So we are now voting on the internet as to what appropriate punishments should be?

Gut it....take the carcaus to a freezer locker and make him crawl up inside and sleep there every night for a week....posting a guard to make certain of total compliance!

He knew he was doing wrong from the get-go. "fanatical hunter" say's a lot. I'll bet he has done things like this before, just has not been caught till now.
Throw the book at him!

This, IMHO.

I'd go 5 years on suspension. Start at 1k in fines then add in market value of animal. IE: 300#'s of meat at $6 per= $1800+ $1000= $2800 in total fines.

To me, the license suspension is primary.

I don't like the idea of confiscation of equipment.

Ok I live in California and I know how hard it is to draw one of these tags or any special tag.

I'd be willing to bet 100-to-1 this is NOT this Azzhat's first rodeo! (Did F&G think to look for a large stash of Deer antlers?) Probably to late to do so now.
Look at his circumstances, ie income-does his wife work-mouths to feed & clothe at home, you don't want to punish any kids for his transgressions.

Impose:
Maximum fine.
Jail time in the form of 26 weekends- cleaning up roadsides or graffiti.
Confiscation of actual bow & gear used- I'll bet there's pictures.
TOTAL LIFETIME BAN FROM ANY SPECIAL HUNTS&TAGS.
Minimum 5 year hunting ban, 10 or more preferred, with lifetime ban guarantee for any F&G violation down the road.
I don't know if California is part of the western F&G alliance where a hunting ban in one state results in same in the others. If so, it should be applied.

First, most states prohibit enforcement of fines against indigent defendants.
Second, the purpose of imposing a fine is to change behavior. The government has only a few tools to make someone change behavior. Some people respond to different tools. Jail, fines, community service, treatment programs, maybe a couple other lesser used tools. Jails are expensive and overcrowded and reserved for people that won't change. It costs tax dollars to house a person that may care little about going to jail. For most people a fine is embarrassing and penalizing enough to change their behavior. If not, then second offenses warrant a different tool.
You can have an ax against game wardens but the defendant in this case made a conscious decision to kill two elk in a special district. Hardly a 99 yards from corn infraction.

Fairly low around here. About the same as what I hear from non bowhunters with "modern" weapons.

One thing I forgot to add, confiscate the 'Ivory' too! Leave him NO momentoes.

Intentional acts, so about $5K, no trophies, and no hunting for 5 years including reciprocity across all of the US.

While people who plead guilty to attempted murder are getting 6 monthes probation.

Yep . . . . . . . that's two things in the last 6 months . . . .lol

Somehow the prosecutor soliciting opinions in this manor doesn't quite feel right. Does the defendant know that you're using this as part of figuring out his penalty?

But, heavy fines, loss of license for 5 years, mandatory class, and some form of wildlife public service seem in order. Seems like the wildlife service stuff might be something he could do for the 5 years that he doesn't have a license.

I also agree with this. Those tags are nearly impossible to draw, and he got very greedy. I'm sure he was convinced he got cheated somehow when he didn't find the first elk and rationalized killing a second.

It doesn't work that way.