Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Help scope my new hunting 308

The stupid... it HURTS!


2muchgun,

YOU are the average hunter.....


The TS30 IS a 2.5-8x Leupold. There's a picture of mine in this thread. Probably a safe bet that I've shot more rounds in a single week with a 2.5-8x Leupold then you've shot in your life.





rc,

How many Leupolds and what models have you personally shot over 1k rounds with in a year that have never been off on click values, zero, or tracking?

Never mind on the tracking and click values as you've already stated that you've had problems- "generally accurate".

Fomo, take a big swig from the cup of humility.
Until you approach anything from a position of humility, and *then* experience, you'll come off as a know-it-all a-hole that nobody gives a rat's ass to hear from.

To OP, consider the 6x leupy and the 2.5-8...they will perform better than most of us can push them.

The OP asked about a scope for his fine looking custom .308 rifle. Assuming he bought it for hunting, which may well be a false assumption on my part, a Leupold 2.5-8x36 or similar sounds like a fine choice.

Does a hunter shoot thousands of rounds a year through his hunting rifle? Doubt it. Does he/she need a scope that doesn't fog, has clear optics, is not too heavy and keeps it's zero? Yes. Leupold scopes fit this criteria at a good price point.

The other day, a visitor to my local range let me try his .308 Steyr SSG 04 sniping rifle. It was topped with a S&B PMII scope, one of those clay coloured ones. The scope was huge and the whole rig heavy. Good fun shooting at the gongs but I'd rather go hunting with my Sako Black Bear .308. Each to their own.

Anybody willing to send one of their Leupold variable scopes to Formidolosus for zero retention testing???

Let the rubber meet the road!

I own VX2's, VX3's, 6.5-20 30mm Mark 4's LR ERT, 8.5-25 30mm Mark 4's LR ERT, 6.5-20 Mark 4's LR ERT M5A2's, etc.

All of the Mark 4's have had thousands of rounds shot under them per year, as they are on Competition rifles. One is on a hunting rifle now. I have one in my drag bag as a back up scope already mounted in the rings in case one goes down at a shoot. I don't care what brand you have on your rifle, if you have any clue at all, you'll have a back up scope ready to mount.

To address your jab about tracking and click values, just about every scope vears off a perfect vertical line at the last part of their travel before the knob bottoms out, regardless of brand. My Mark 4 M5A2's do not.

I have had scopes go down, just like anyone else who shoots. I have sent them in to Leupold and they have been repaired or replaced promptly. Best customer service of any optics maker. That says a bunch too.

I have seen leupold click values to be off a little. Don't take that out of context either. When I say "off a little", it means in the cumulative, compounding sense. IE: The values of total units the reticle moved may not be exactly what was dialed, but in an increment so small it hardly matters. I'm talking about 1/4 MOA to 1/2 MOA at full travel...60 minutes.

You'll see that problem at about 1400 yards. You have more things to worry about at 1400 yards than 1/4 MOA of accuracy. Even then, the actual click value of your turret can be calculated and put into your ballistic program which will account for the tiny inaccuracy.

For example, my 4.5-14 VX3 LR CDS 40mm is off by 1/2 MOA at 45MOA




Do you know why Ballistic programs have that feature? It's not because only one scope brand could have this problem. It's common.

I have noticed the scope values getting much better the more the turrets are used while actually on the jig as well.

You'll see that the actual click values are calculated at .247 MOA instead of exactly .25 MOA. Tiny difference.

I have a 6.5-20 VX3 LR Side focus 30mm tube 40mm with a custom TMR. Reticle, as always, is dead nutz perfect at full power...



The evaluation sheet looks like this



Everything is about the same. Off by about 1/2 MOA starting at 1260 yards with the rifle it's on.

There is no such thing as the Ideal scope, for all individual, just as there is no such thing as the ideal woman, for any and all men.
There is no doubt, for us older then dirt individuals, that the old K series Weavers, were as close as it gets, to filling that tall order tho. However, since ADK acquired Weaver, and voided the warrenty on all optics mfgered before their acquisition, I will no longer buy a Weaver!
In regards to Leopold, I bought a VX1 a few years ago, mounted it one one of my firearms, set it in the rest to bore sight, and as I was adjusting the windage, the cross hair wouldn't move! I kept twisting the adjustment screw---until it backed out!! I contacted Leopold, was told to send it in. I did, and went to our local store, bought a VX2, figuring when I got the VX1 back, to just use it as a spare, or mounting it on a different rifle.
When I went to adjust the VX2, as I adjusted, the cross hars would not move smoothly. ya would adjust--NUTHUNG, and then they would jump. Again, I contacted Leopold. Was told that this is a commen problem, because the internal adjustments had not been properly lubricated!! I was to adjust both adjustments all the way in, and then all the way back out, at least 4 times, so the internal lube would be distributed evenly! Ya, it did help--sorta. But, when I got the VX1 back--unrepaired, with a one line note "insufficient information", when I had included a detailed letter with the scope, NO MORE LEOPOLDS!
The best scope I have is a Simmons Presidential, 4 x 44. It's been on my .300 win mag since '90. Has seen much more service and abuse then most folk could give a firearm, and it has never lost zero--never had to be readjusted! The second best, would probably have to be that old Bushnell "45" Wide View, on my .45-70.
I have more then a few firearms, probably close to 20 different scopes, some cheap, some not so cheap. In most cases, ya take care of'um and they will do what they were designed to do.
I'm durn near 80, have lived in the bush most of my life, started huntin' trappin' before I was 12, and if a scope will stand the abuse of my way of life, it'll sure stand up under the use most of you folks would give it. However, whats good for me, may not be as good for you, weather it be my choice of a scope, or a woman!

No need, I've got two 2.5-8 that I have been testing for 15 + years. They've been horseback, hauled around on an ATV, bounced around in a pickup, dropped, dust storms, rain, snow, lent to my kid that could destroy an anvil and have survived the way I use them fine. Not everyone twists turrets on every rifle.

Will they fail someday? Probably.

I could give Form' a Ryobi impact and it would probably last him the rest of his life, I'd burn it out in less than a year.

Thank you. Im on my phone now and it would take me 3 days to type that. Exactly my point.

Formy---have you had said scope fail on a hunting rifle? I have owned 3 and all performed fine. One has been on a 1953 M70 30-06 forever.

If you'll spare me the military stuff , I'll spare telling you that I shoot LR, I've owned 100s of rifles/scopes, loaded 10s of thousands of rounds, and had bunches of scopes fail. But only 1 of over 50 something Leupolds.

I have a Mark 4 16x40 M1 that is on its THIRD set of turrets. For LR I use it and a couple of NXSs. All 3 track perfectly, and yes, I'm fully qualified to make this claim. I have been a turret twister for a very long time.

Military experience is great. But I don't see how it is relevant every time "the average hunter" as you say, asks for a recommendation for a hunting rifle scope.

Asking old timers like Charlie how he tests his scopes in order to "prove'" to you his credibility is nothing short of ludicrous. The guy has been killing critters consistently with Leupold scopes probably as long as you have been alive. Such a man is simply going to tell you to GFY every time. As he should.

Not trying to pick a fight. You seem like an okay dude. It's only the posers whom I can't stand.

Hopefully you will pick up what I'm trying to lay down here.

Gotta run. Later....

In my experience, Leupold variables on hunting rifles shift POI at a high rate. Yeah, its a bunch of rough rednecks running them, but isn't that the point?

Ingersoll Rand is 10x the tool as Ryobi..

Ryobi is the Leupold of the tool world.

Pot/Stirred

Also, everyone is saying the OP just wants an average scope for average use..Did you guys miss the mention of Nightforce in the first post? That would lead a guy to assume he's going to be twisting on it, dont you think? How many guys recommending Leup, besides RC really dial in? I still have a lot of leups, that I set it and forget it,no turrets on them. They are very reliable for that, IMO.

Lots of us here have lost our trust in Leup, ant lots of guys here love them..I've lost trust in them.

They have a great warranty,too bad I had to use it annually or more. All except for one 4.5-14LR, its a keeper.

Cordless impact you tool.

I use and have never had to send a Leupold in for a failure in 30+ years of use, and I can take them or leave them, been looking at other brands like NF and LRHS lately just to try something different!

Good luck with that. You'll stand a better chance of being hit by a meteor than Formid abondoning his oversized ego. He equates knob twisting addicts with the avg hunting crowd, which is a joke. When I say "average hunter" I assumed people were smart enough to know that this means "non knob twister/non sniper/non sniper wannabe". Therefore I stick with my statement that the average hunter (non knob twister) will never wear out a VX3, Elite, or Conquest.

You're right, but if it has knobs to twist it shouldn't wear out.

There are certain scopes with knobs that are glorified iron sights and are perfect for Joe Hunter who just wants to look at them. They don't track, the reticles are inaccurate and the click values are not even close to what they say they are.

Leupold is not one of them...

I hear ya, JG....agreed from the get go on your "average hunter" verbiage.

There are hunting optics, and there are sniper/tactical optics, they ain't no where near the same for many reasons.
If I'm shooting some Isis goat humper from 1000 yards, my 6x36mm ain't getting the nod.
Whitetail from 165? Done deal.

Gentlemen,

Background on myself, Military sniper that has used everything from leatherwood ART II to a Leupold MK4 mounted on a Barrett 50.
I've competed at the national level at Camp Perry in years past with wins in over the course and Long range. Used a MK 4 16x that didn't adjust, (cost me a win) as well as a 6.5-25 Leupold that did work well enough to help me win the Wimbledon cup.

I've hunted the west from Arizona, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho and other places with several good bull Elk, cow elk, and 2-30" plus Mule deer from the Paunsagunt and BC, and several antelope to my credit. I hunt the swamps in Fl and Ga for pigs and deer.

I've had good and bad Leupolds, and every one that needed it, was repaired for free by Leupold. As they are made in the USA, most of my hunting rifles wear Leupolds. I posted the thread in hopes of possibly find something I was overlooking. I want a reticle thats illuminated, an elevation turret that can be used and tracks with no glitches, and is reasonably light weight. MY bad on not posting this up front in the beginning.

I'm in the process of dumping a LOT of rifles and scopes and hope to downsize to a couple hunting rifles with standardized loads for all around use for Elk, deer and pigs.

My good friend John Whidden from Whidden gun works, swears by Nightforce, so I'm leaning this way, but if Leupold has a variable 10x Illum model like the ultralight and others here say it's the sh*t and tracks well, I'd buy one.

I appreciate the discourse and if another scope than the 2.5-8 model VX 3 is recommended in the Leupold line, I'm all ears.

Other wise, it looks like the nightforce 2-10x32 is coming this way.
Best regards,

Rgr-x

Can't see a 6x sucking, but you have to make yourself happy.

That's the plan.
Thanks for the input.

If you are after a compact scope, the NF 2.5-10x42 is a nice improvement over the x32. It is relatively new, and I am just starting to work with it, but thus far have been happy with it. NF finally made the illumination adjustable externally, which is a long overdue improvement. Really like it a lot.

The NF 5-22x56 is my favorite of all NF scopes, and I use it for target shooting and really enjoy using it hunting. The 5-22x56 works well enough for hunting that I have shot feral pigs by moonlight with it on two occasions.

Reticles are a personal preference. This one has the MOAR, which I find user friendly and helpful. The NP-R1 is good also. Others will say go with one of the versions of a Mil-based reticle, which is a good choice too. Just make sure the turrets match the reticle.

Leupolds - I sold off all of my (four) Leupolds except for a fixed 4x on my nephew's 22LR. Some on here have never had a problem with their Leupolds, and good for them, truly. I no longer trust their reliability. Maybe that will change in the future. Their customer service and warranties may be the best in the world, but to me the best customer service is to design and build it right before it leaves the factory so it works correctly, is durable, and does not go down.

I've never had a NF break or need to go back other than adding a zero stop to an old one. I have never seen a NF or S&B break, but I have seen first hand Leupolds and USO's have problems.

That's just my experience, which is less than Formidilosus, Rick, or Burn's. Obviously others have different opinions and experiences with lots of good luck with Leupold, which I hope holds for them. Just sharing mine fwiw.

F, out of curiosity, which scopes have been the most durable and reliable in your experience?

Here is the 2.5-10x42

An M3A on a M24 SWS never failed. I've not used a Nightforce.