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+1
I agree with you on this, but really have nothing to back it up other than having looked at a lot of rifles.
I don't recall ever seeing a magnum rifle with a super light barrel contour. What about the Mod 70 Featherweights in .270 and .300 Weatherby?
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+1
I agree with you on this, but really have nothing to back it up other than having looked at a lot of rifles.
I don't recall ever seeing a magnum rifle with a super light barrel contour. What about the Mod 70 Featherweights in .270 and .300 Weatherby? These were "Featherweights" in the stock only. Barrels were standard magnum contour.
"after the bullet leaves the barrel it doesn't care what headstamp was on the case"
"The 221 Fireball is what the Hornet could have been had it stayed in school"
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I used one in .300 Weatherby some years back but don't recall the barrel contour so you may have something there. I do have an unused new featherweight stock with the standard barrel contour so it is possible they made both versions.
John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Thanks Bob. You mentioned some of the older barrels appearing to be the same "contour" in some mag chamberings, but is it possible, that they had heavy enough contours back them to handle standard and mag chamberings ? I guess what I was referring to was the rifles of today, such as the one I mentioned, the Remington Mountain Rifle, which also came with a standard contour and a mag contour which was kind of my point. Maybe gunsmiths will shave a few thousands here or there, but I believe, in general the factories have different contours for standard and mag chamberings. I could be wrong though.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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RD I am pretty sure that M70's used the same contours for standard and magnum chamberings, things like FW's and 375 H&H's excepted.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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I don't know if RinB is a gunsmith or something but perhaps he has his own experience with barrel contours that doesn't necessarily conform with what factory ideas are about safe thickness's for magnum chambered rounds. All I know from my limited experience is that factories appear to use heavier barrels than perhaps what a gunsmith would do per customer requests. Even that 300 WM Remington Custom Shop African Plains rifle I have has a heavier contour barrel than say their KS rifles in standard, non magnum chamberings, but it is visibly trimmer than the production magnum sporter contours.
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Campfire Outfitter
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If it was so good I wonder why there is such a big thread on the hunting rifle section on how to make a kimber shoot and the rave reviews of the famous kimber roulette. Not just here on the campfire but everywhere else. I have mostly hear of good praises from the new winchesters only and nothing has to be done to it to make it shoot like messing with the kimber mag box, torque settings, bedding, blah blah blah the whole bible written on it, lol. I've owned 5 Kimber Montanas, and 2 recently manufactured Winchesters. The Kimbers shot as well or better than the Winchesters, and both Winchesters had issues. In the future if I go to buy a Winchester Model 70, it will have been manufactured before 1964.
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Thanks Bob. You mentioned some of the older barrels appearing to be the same "contour" in some mag chamberings, but is it possible, that they had heavy enough contours back them to handle standard and mag chamberings ? I guess what I was referring to was the rifles of today, such as the one I mentioned, the Remington Mountain Rifle, which also came with a standard contour and a mag contour which was kind of my point. Maybe gunsmiths will shave a few thousands here or there, but I believe, in general the factories have different contours for standard and mag chamberings. I could be wrong though. A good example that comes to mind is my dads early Remington 700 in 264 win mag that came in a factory sporter contour not the rem mag contour. These barrels were stainless steel but had a blue/black finish on them which has all but worn off from use in the field and handling. I don't know if this fits your criteria as a "light contour" but an example of a magnum chambering sharing a sporter barrel contour with 270 etc chamberings nonetheless.
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Also I see plenty of magnum chamberings on here using #2 type barrel contours and the Kimber 8400 short mags sport a fairly thin barrel contour as well. I think the factories going heavier is most likely lawyer issues and extra precaution but I am not a gunsmith just offering my opinion that its not a huge deal unless really pushing the bore size in a skinny tube.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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If it was so good I wonder why there is such a big thread on the hunting rifle section on how to make a kimber shoot and the rave reviews of the famous kimber roulette. Not just here on the campfire but everywhere else. I have mostly hear of good praises from the new winchesters only and nothing has to be done to it to make it shoot like messing with the kimber mag box, torque settings, bedding, blah blah blah the whole bible written on it, lol. I've owned 5 Kimber Montanas, and 2 recently manufactured Winchesters. The Kimbers shot as well or better than the Winchesters, and both Winchesters had issues. In the future if I go to buy a Winchester Model 70, it will have been manufactured before 1964. I own pre-war 30-06, transition 270 WCF, 54 supergrade 257 Roberts, 58' 243 featherweight, 52' 300 h&h, push feed 7x57 and 6.5x55, 4 New Haven classics, SC Extreme Weather and SC FW Deluxe. NO ISSUES. I would still buy kimbers, but only thier 1911s.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I own pre-war 30-06, transition 270 WCF, 54 supergrade 257 Roberts, 58' 243 featherweight, 52' 300 h&h, push feed 7x57 and 6.5x55, 4 New Haven classics, SC Extreme Weather and SC FW Deluxe. NO ISSUES. I would still buy kimbers, but only thier 1911s. Interesting - I would buy their rifles but NOT their 1911.
Me
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RD I am pretty sure that M70's used the same contours for standard and magnum chamberings, things like FW's and 375 H&H's excepted. Do you think that the factories want to, in general, maintain a certain shank diameter and shank length for say magnum rounds that are based on H&H rounds and perhaps this is why mag contoured barrels are heavier than non-magnum chambered rounds ? Maybe I wasn't stating my observations clearly enough as I don't believe RinB has responded to my question.
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I have had three "improved" 280's, two AI and one RCBS. I have also shot a 280 a lot. My 280 with a longer throat, OAL 3.45, is about 30-35 fps behind the "improved" cases at equal pressures. In a hunting rifle, I would use a 22-23" barrel.
Very interesting approach. I've heard here that long throating like this, fixes the 7mm Rem mag How long do you trim your 280 cases? ie. do you let them grow longer than 2.540" with appropriate chamber adjustments for neck length? The reason the improved cases are more difficult to get to feed as slickly as a standard is because of the reduced body taper. The shoulder angle has nothing to do with that other than most "improveds" have both. another good reason to just extend the throat if you have the mag length. Also the idea that a 280 AI is lighter than a 7 mag is just wrong thinking. Same stock, same barrel, same action...the magnum will be slightly lighter because the chamber removes a little more steel. Kimber 84L changes that I would get the standard built but have the throat extended. Cases and dies are cheaper. Or just get a 270 or a 7RM.
Very interesting thoughts, please elaborate on throat lengthening. Cheers No doubt Rick could elaborate and so could l for that matter. But for those so inclined to go look the topic was pretty well covered back in t he 1980's by Layne Simpson in an as rticle entitled "Long Throating the 7mm Express Remington". The data was pretty comprehensive and included diffrrent barrel lengths and powders as good in the 280 as anything today (MRP for example).Some of the data shows velocities so close t o 280AI it m akes us wonder.. I did some work with the 280 over the tears and maybe half dozen rifles. And talked th o RinB to compare notes since he is an old pal goibg back 30 years. After doing all this it's not hard to understand why l could never get excited over a 280AI. It was just easierto get a 7 RemMag if l wanted more than a 280 offered. Yes the Kimber Montana outs a slightly new slant on the whole thing with an 06 bllt face. BobinNH, RinB - Thanks again for an interesting reference ! I'll be digging for the May 1980 issue of Rifle (#69), to explore that further.
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I own pre-war 30-06, transition 270 WCF, 54 supergrade 257 Roberts, 58' 243 featherweight, 52' 300 h&h, push feed 7x57 and 6.5x55, 4 New Haven classics, SC Extreme Weather and SC FW Deluxe. NO ISSUES. I would still buy kimbers, but only thier 1911s. Interesting - I would buy their rifles but NOT their 1911. Same here. The pre series 2 1911's......yes. But current production? No.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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BobinNH, RinB - Thanks again for an interesting reference !
I'll be digging for the May 1980 issue of Rifle (#69), to explore that further.
338 I think that's the one!
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Where did this train go?
I am using a .280AI as my go to with 160gr Accubonds and Deepcurls interchangeably. They shoot the same relative FPS and have the same POI.
3000fps isn't easy to sniff at and I can stuff 5 in the magazine of the Rem700 it's on. rembo twisted IT together, but I dumped the steel into an original McMillan KS.
The 6.5 Rem Mag is squeezing into its field time, but AI has taken more game so far.....
AF
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3000fps isn't easy to sniff at and I can stuff 5 in the magazine of the Rem700 it's on.
but I dumped the steel into an original McMillan KS.
In spite of the fact that I haven't really seen the need to AI any of my 280's, that metal/stock/cartridge combo with whatever 160 grainer spins your prop, is just about perfect, IMO. MM
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RD I am pretty sure that M70's used the same contours for standard and magnum chamberings, things like FW's and 375 H&H's excepted. Do you think that the factories want to, in general, maintain a certain shank diameter and shank length for say magnum rounds that are based on H&H rounds and perhaps this is why mag contoured barrels are heavier than non-magnum chambered rounds ? Maybe I wasn't stating my observations clearly enough as I don't believe RinB has responded to my question. I am of the opinion that the added weight manufacturers leave on a magnum rifle is intended to manage recoil making a more saleable rifle for the general public. Shod
The 6.5 Swede, Before Gay Was Ok
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Shod in the case of 300 and 338 etc you are right....but in the case of the 7 RM some contours are just too heavy. The cartridge is not a real big magnum,does not gin up a lot of recoil(IME about like a 30/06. And a slightly lighter contour makes the rifle balance better,handle snappier,and saves some weight. I shot a couple the other day with #2 contours and full house loads....the things did not even lift off the bags. 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Tracker
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I am working with a 280AI at the moment with a 22" barrel. I will post some load development work over the next few weeks. Still forming cases at present and the loading is just beginning.
Starting with 160gn Accubond's, 150gn Partitions and Ballistic tips, 145gn LRX's 110gn and 120gn TSX's, 154gn Hornady's, 140gn Woodleight's and whatever else I can find on the bench.
It will be easy to add about 25fps per inch to suit your preferences.
John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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