Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Conceal carry?

In your profile you list "reloading" as a hobby. You EDC a .38 special. Handloading .38 is cheap, cheap, cheap.

How can you not be able to afford "that much ammo"?

Because I feel sorry for him, I will point out that he was referring to the semi automatic ammo when he alluded to "can't afford that much ammo".

This changes the whole issue, because reloading 9mm ain't cheap. Nor available in bulk for a decent price.

Looks like a 455 to me...

Pat, you know I was just funnin' ya... but a lot of folks may not, which is why I've quoted your entire post here. Your point is HUGE.

I also ALWAYS carry. As I type this I'm in my bathrobe in my study, but I've got a subcompact 9mm in my bathrobe pocket and a .45 in the drawer.

I had a similar experience to yours nearly 20 years ago... a guy I had helped put away for drug trafficking, a BIG guy who had a serious hate on me for a number of reasons, was s'posed to be in the penitentiary for the next 4 years when I came across him sudden-like. He had vowed to dismember me with his bare hands, etc... and on the day in question he suddenly appeared in front of me at the local 7-11 when all I had on me was a ballpoint pen. Lucky for me a uniform city cop was there as well.

Current g/f thinks it's funny that I always carry, but a couple of times already she's asked me, "You packin'?" when we've been in the Metroplex, and has been relieved to hear my affirmative answer.

Thanks for the backup Doc. It was huge to me.

Trouble is usually a "come as you are party" and doesn't suffer fools lightly. Unless I am naked, I am armed.

For most intelligent creatures, it only takes one of those little warning sessions to make you a believer....

So let me see if I follow: if a 45 (apple) is superior to a 9MM (orange) when both are ball rounds, but if both are upgraded to hollow points the apple's stopping power capabilities are not enhanced yet the orange's are?


I'll take the 45...

Training doesn't necessarily require expenditure of large amounts of ammo. Extreme example: one of the best Master Class IPSC/IDPA shooters out there currently showed up and won his first IDPA match without having fired more than a couple dozen live rounds in his life to that point... he'd been training by watching IPSC videos and dry-firing.

But not to be extreme or ridiculous... the REAL skills you need to proficient in with your defensive firearm are not necessarily marksmanship issues.

I read an article recently about this. The author broke down hundreds of civilian defensive shootings and found that the skills needed most often aren't the skills most people practice at the range. But standing on the firing line with your gun in your hands in the ready position does not equate to the starting condition of most civilian defensive shootings!

The author pointed out that the most common skill needed in defensive shootings was accessing your firearm. That means getting the gun out of the glove box/gunsafe/laundry basket behind the door, or in the case of the more preparedness-minded, drawing it from the holster.

How often do you draw from your holster when you go to the range? It should be the thing you practice MOST! And be honest with yourself: if your daily carry is a J-frame in your front pocket, then that's the gun and carry method you should practice at the range! Practicing with a fullsize Glock in a Kydex belt holster when you usually carry a pocket revolver is not going to help you if you get into a deadly force situation at the 7-11 tonight!

Other high-priority real-world gunfighting skills that few people practice are things like moving to cover (true cover, not just concealment) while accessing your firearm, shooting one-handed (while accessing your cell phone to call 911), etc. When you practice, use a shot timer to push yourself to better performance, and use a realistic target... lifesize human photo targets are cheap and effective training tools.

Most of these skills can be practiced without firing a single live round. And once you graduate to live fire, think about what you need to practice most... getting one or two really good hits on your target's upper chest area at typical defensive range, say 4-7 yards. Combine that with practicing your draw, and you can get a LOT of good training in with little ammo expenditure.

Here's a simple and economical practice plan that won't break the ammo bank:

1. Rig up, empty gun. Using a timer to start yourself and facing your humanoid target, draw your gun to full aim 30 times.
2. Repeat, but this time dry-fire one time at your target's upper chest, or head, or pelvis.
3. Put an empty magazine in your gun and rack the slide. Point the empty gun at your target. On the timer signal, eject the empty mag and reload with a magazine from your belt/pocket/purse. Repeat 30 times.
4. Draw your empty but "ready" (cocked & locked, however you carry it routinely) firearm and shoot one dryfire round at your target. Repeat 30 times (or 50, or 100... it won't cost you any more to do 200 reps than one!)

Now let's proceed to live fire...

4. Load your gun with a magazine containing one round. On signal, draw and fire one round at your target. Reload, repeat 30 times. Start slow for form for the first half dozen rounds, then gradually force yourself to draw-and-shoot faster. Practice each reload as if your life depended on it.
5. Same as #4, but with 2 rounds in the gun (one in mag, one up the spout), and fire a double-tap each time (2 shots with one sight picture). Reload. Repeat 15 times (30 rounds)
6. With your firearm fully charged, draw and fire one round on the target with your strong hand only. Repeat for 15 rounds total.
7. With your firearm fully charged, transfer the loaded firearm into your support hand and fire 15 single rounds with the support hand only.

That's 90 rounds of ammo expended, and you'll have covered the basic skills you need for proficiency with your defensive handgun: drawing, getting one or two fast and accurate hits on your assailant, and shooting with one hand only. You can cut back to 45 rounds if you need to save money on ammo, but remember that there is no cost to dry-firing.

Most of the people that have the strongest opinions about this type of schit don't even own a timer.



Travis

Shooting man-on-man often leaves the 1911 crowd a little disheartened as well.

While they're reloading the guy with that "Ugly POS" G17 finishes all the plates.


Travis

Genius. I have changed my sig line accordingly.

As you suggest, Doc, most of my practice with my revolver is dry fire, draw and fire from concealed carry. At the range (where, 9 times out of ten I have the facility entirely to myself), I'm also very economical, focusing on drawing and firing from concealed carry, working on smoothness, from which comes speed. I only need fifty rounds for a good deal of valuable work at the range, because here's how I do it: I load up five empties and one live round. Then I rotate the cylinder to a random position, then close it and holster the gun. Then, from various starting positions, I draw and fire, focusing on smoothness and sureness, only gradually building speed. Each time I do this, I have no knowledge whether it's a live round or an empty. Then, after a few dozen repetitions of this, I load two rounds along with the empties, and repeat. Only the last dozen are loaded six at a time.

But most of my trigger time is at home with snap caps, drilling draw and fire from concealed carry.

some of the best advice I've seen on this subject here offered by Doc Rocket and Lt. Powell


can't tell you how many weird looks I've gotten from folks at our rifle range preparing for sheep season. (alright full disclosure most folks give me a weird look upon meeting me)

set targets at 100, 200, & 325 yards

check scope zero at 100, if all good


drop and do 50 pushups, hop up and using my backpack from a rest, a shot at 100, a shot at 200 and a shot at 325



and also when I was guiding used to do the reverse, milk jugs at 40 yards, 30 yards, 20 yards and 10 yards, rifle slung, dismount and shoot those jugs as fast as my lil hands could work the bolt and paste crosshairs. Starting at the farthest and working in to the closest jug.


you play the way you practice

I agree with most everything I have to say.



Travis

Or use an "Ugly POS" 21....

I usually stay out of these because I disagree with all but about three people who post on them. But this is worth saying....

While I agree with the "slow is smooth-smooth is fast" doctrine in theory, it gets all jacked up in application.

People think that if slow=smooth and smooth=fast, then slow=fast. And it just ain't so. Going slow is only a tool to create the smoothidity. Once the smoothocity is there you should work on getting faster, not keep practicing slowly.

At some point you've gotta take that smokewagon out and go to work with it. And it might not be pretty, and in fact it'll probably have a lot lot of ugly, but it'll be real. When you've gotta really draw, it'll be at balls out speed. So you owe it to yourself to find out what you're capable of cold, at balls out speed.

And I firmly believe that the first round of every practice session should be at balls out speed. Seeing how you shoot after forty minutes of warmup is no indication of your actual ability. But most people have no desire to see what their cold and on demand ability is, because it probably ain't good.

OR




So, you can't get the hang of clearing leather on semis unless you have more bullets (?), when, after its all said and done, you only shot 50 from your wheel gun routine for acceptable "proficiency"?

Shot timer=truth. If you are too broke/cheap to buy one there is a phone app. For home dryfire go to Predator tactical.com. that site has a variety of targets including movers that allow you to set a par time to beat.

Sheister that 1 .45 round in the A zone may eventually be fatal. The booger eaters will kill and eat your kids while waiting to bleed out unless you park it in the center of their brain housing group.

My personal reality check done weekly is on the timer,from concealment w/ no warmup. Drew and fire 6 rounds into CSAT A zone in less than 3 seconds.

mike r

Mike's using the "walking dead defense" to his excessive force suit.