Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Are we on the verge of Executive Order slippery slope?

No it doesn't.

All it did was compare a bunch of trivial [bleep].

Amnesty by executive order. Was there a Bush equivalent?

And how would it be justified either way?

Huffington post MSNBC drivel from moronic progressive/regressive communist lieberals. Nothing to see there, that has a lick of truth in it.

Well this is just me, and I'm sure you guys will flame the hell out me for not towing the right wing line, but I don't much care.


Compromises from the right:
We need a guest worker program, a realistic one so a head of lettuce doesn't cost $10. We need a way where employers with illegals can work with ICE to make their workers legal. They don't have to be citizens, but we can make them legal.

It's completely unreasonable and logistically/financially impossible to deport 20 million illegal aliens; that's just a pipe dream of people who are pissed off (of which, I'm one of them, but I CAN be realistic). Republicans need to just drop that one no matter how pissed they are.

The border fence is a dip-chit feel-good idea that is the maximum dollar expenditure for the least return. There are much better ways to secure the border�hell, just let the border patrol do their job; that alone will get you 9/10ths of the way there.

There needs to be a path to citizenship, but it needs to be in a way that doesn't bump illegals ahead of those who have been trying to become a citizen LEGALLY. Stop welfare and medicaid, then require any illegal to get a job and spend X amount of years as a guest migrant worker before they're eligible for citizenship. Then require sponsorship from an employer/continuous employment for citizenship. It doesn't have to happen overnight (hell, how long they been here?), it can take a decade or more, but we need to work it out and get it done. This would be a good tit-for a secure our border tat.


Compromises from the left:
SECURE OUR FREAKING BORDER FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!

Let the border patrol do the their freaking jobs, and back them like we back out troops.

Illegal immigrants who commit felonies need to be immediately deported; every damn one of them! Again, doesn't have to happen overnight, but it needs to happen. And Mexico can kiss our collective arses.

At a very minimum, we need to suspend welfare and medicaid to illegal immigrants for 2-3 years while we create a migrant worker program with employer sponsorship. Personally I'd like to see it completely stopped, but I'd settle for a temporary suspension while we work chit out.

Bush wanted amnesty, he just wasn't willing to go to an executive order to do it.

Ok, notwithstanding this conjecture, the difference between Bush's EO, and �bama's is that Bush did a bunch of trivial [bleep], and �bama did some trivial [bleep], and held up the EO as something he could do to circumvent Congress, AND appears likely to do an EO for nefarious purposes on a polarized and controversial issue that has far reaching ramifications..

Well my finger wasn't pointed only at the right, I thought my post was completely neutral but I guess most didn't take it that way.

Compromise has to come on both sides. You have to negotiate for the Win-Win, or you get the Win-Lose, and we go right back to the staus-quo (which given all the beotching here, doesn't seem to be working).

Yep, that's about how I see it.

I find it odd that you feel the left should work to secure our border but in the same post you state a fence is a "dip schit feel good idea."



Travis

Travis, if you haven't noticed yet Kevin has just about everything all figured out for us, all we have to do is listen in awe.

From a cynical "Don't give a rat's ass about the country" perspective it is good politics. Obama puts the Republicans in a bind. The base will be screaming for them to do something and stop Obama. If they don't try, the base says "Frick it" and doesn't show up for the Republicans at the next election. If they do come out swinging, the press is going to make them look like raving lunatics for the next two years.

At this point, I don't care if the whole country goes up in flames. End it here, end it now.

Well that�s because we do need to secure our border, but the border fence is a dip-chit idea. Look where we have fences now, countless tunnels, cut fences, people going over the fence, under the fence. A fence keeps out the really brain dead�anyone more than room temperature can figure out now to circumvent the fence. It�s the biggest expenditure of money for the least return on our dollars. What do you want, symbolism or results? Sounds like you�re more interested in symbolism. I on the other hand would actually like to see money used in a productive fashion and end up with a secure border.

What was it that Patton said??? "Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man" Something to that effect.

Sans fence, how do you insure a secure border?

The answer is obvious.


Choot em.

I have things worked out in my mind; clearly my ideas don't work for everyone. But I enjoy good gentlemanly debate on such issues, and every now and then, I'll learn something that makes me change my perspective.

But I wonder why when I post an idea that's different from the rest of the crowd why everyone gets so hostile...a bit insecure maybe that perhaps someone dares to go against the hive mind???

You don't seem to understand that a fence can and does influence flow and causes smugglers to adapt.

While only a fool would believe it stops all flow along a border, it is impossible to dispute their effectiveness when combined with personnel.



Travis

No not at all, I just find it odd that you have an opinion and present said opinion as if it were fact on nearly every political, economic, and social issue that is discussed here on the fire.

Merely an observation.

You need to work on your delivery.



Travis

The same way we have for the past 100 years, you let the Border Patrol do their freaking jobs, and you back them like we back our soldiers. You let them arrest, and you immediately deport.

There are 4 elements to securing anything, and a border fence is only one of those elements, and not really great at that.

Deter
Detect
Delay
Respond

Deter - A fence isn't much of a deterrence. An armed Border Patrolman certainly is.

Detect - Fences don't detect squat

Delay - This is the only thing it does, but the delay isn't sufficient to be effective, and if you read up on how the border fence has been working, you'll see it hasn't really been effective at all.

Respond - Fences don't respond, men do.

I'm not saying a fence is worthless, don't confuse what I'm saying. But a fence by itself just won't do the job. You need to get all the other elements in place before a fence really adds anything meaningful.

Look at Israel, they have all the elements and their fence has more tunnels under it than Vietnam had during the war.

Everyone here respects Patton, but won't heed his words about fixed fortifications.

On that you're probably right Travis...I can be an abrasive SOB that's for sure. You just know I'll be the old man standing on the porch yelling at the kids to get off my damm lawn.

S

No, stupid id stupid regardless of the party or who is being stupid. My only point is this prez has not cornered the market on EO's as it has been used by almost all presidents for a very long time.