Everyone likes to say the bullet only turns over 1-1.5 times in traveling through an animal, but expansion in that time is the same thing...it's only in an animal for a short period of time, too and look what happens...I mean looking at film of expanding bullets in medium...in that short distance and span of time the bullet is causing a great deal of damage and expands very rapidly.
It's been proven countless times and observed by lots of knowledgeable people over the years that rapid twist helps bullet expansion (no it's not solely responsible but contributes),and manifests itself with larger wound channel, or more "lift" on varmints....first mention I ever heard of any of this stuff was from John Jobson years ago...he wrote of his observations but never got into "why".
Like Varmints posted above,Bill Steigers used to tell me the faster twist also contributes to keeping the bullet point on in the animal after impact.This helps penetration...so I am hearing the same things here, today, that Bill was telling us in the 70's and 80's. of course he did a lot of testing on the matter as well.
Three 35 Whelen TSXs recovered from deer, moose and elk. All quartering away. Hit behind paunches. Bullets found in necks, Saw/heard all three hit the ground.
The heavier the bullet and the lower the velocity, the less chance for petal loss.
I used to shoot 160 partitions in my .280, switched 2 years ago to 140 grain TTSX, couldn't be happier with change, four shots 4 deer, 2 dropped right there, 2 ran maybe 10m. Very little bloodshot meat. I liked the result so much that this year I have dropped down to 120 grain TTSX, haven't shot anything with this load yet but I am sure it is going to perform well.
Good to hear. Are you using the plastic tip TTSXs?
Three 35 Whelen TSXs recovered from deer, moose and elk. All quartering away. Hit behind paunches.
Translation - gut shot.
Why do you continue to insist on shooting animals in the gut and butt? You are not doing the animal or your dinner guests any favors.
120 TTSX via a 260 Rem from last week. Through and through wound. Somehow, the pig miraculously fell over DRT without a gut shot, and the meat is clean and pristine. Shot placement matters.
Gee banned again by the cowards. That only leaves about 30 user IDs left.
What a bunch of sad sacks who can never win, only annoy.
Here's my post. Count on as many more as I wish to make. LMAO
Ingwe, who would never take a shot except when the animal was standing still 100% broadside. jeffbird brags about shooting piggies in the head. I have yet to meet or read of any respected big game hunter who advocates shooting anything except Elephants in the head.
Translation is not "gut shot" it's a quartering away shot which is pretty common when still hunting in the black timber. All bullets penetrated far enough to take out vital organs and kill the animal quickly. Many bullets like match bullets or Bergers used by some uninformed folks would not have made it through a paunch.
Ingwe and the piggy shooter are engaging in childish troll slander which is no surprise.
All three animals ended up in the freezer with no damage to edible meat. Anyone who thinks a rear quartering shot or even one between the rear hams damages edible meat really doesn't know much about animal anatomy. While I could be wrong, I think the is the primary objective is making a clean one shot kill.
Another example of a shot Ingwe would no doubt pass is this speed goat taken quartering away at a trot, 230 yards, 80 gr TTSX, exiting my 30" 1885 25-06 Browning high wall at 4000 fps. Entered behind last rib, went end to end, exiting through right shoulder. He fell on his face and that was that.
An ethical hunter takes shots he knows he can make. In 54 years of hunting I have never lost a firearm shot big game animal animal. Of over 200 only 2 were shot more than once. I did lose one bow shot deer of 57 taken. Shooting birds/clay birds and 4 position rifle shooting are far better training for real hunting than sitting at a benchrest. Amusing that most hunters today think a sling is only for carrying the long gun. Some of us who served know better.
I've never shot a Puma run up a tree by dogs, a baited leopard from a blind, a bear brought to bay by a dog pack or an Elk at 700 yards from a truck mounted benchrest. IMHO hunting ethics, along with ethics in general are pretty well out of style. "Men" with no balls have spoiled this site while hiding under their desks.
It seems the less "general" a site is, the better the members. Subjects are stuck to, personal attacks are dealt with and nobody posts silly pictures to degrade other members. Too bad Sgt Friday is not the site moderator here.
jeffbird brags about shooting piggies in the head. I have yet to meet or read of any respected big game hunter who advocates shooting anything except Elephants in the head.
No bragging involved, just sharing some facts. While it may not be in your magazine subscriptions, spend time with those doing some culling and you will see that head shots are common. You remain the only "hunter" that I've encountered that intentionally and consistently goes for the butt and gut. Is there anyone other than you that advocates that?
Originally Posted by Romney2016
An ethical hunter takes shots he knows he can make.
I agree. And so you go for butt and gut shots, and this is our meat, so I prefer shot placement elsewhere. He never heard this one coming.
Originally Posted by Romney2016
While I could be wrong, I think the is the primary objective is making a clean one shot kill�. Anyone who thinks a rear quartering shot or even one between the rear hams damages edible meat really doesn't know much about animal anatomy.
Wow, here we go again, you intentionally butt shoot animals, and you think you are the paragon of hunting ethics? Wow!
Originally Posted by Romney2016
Many bullets like match bullets or Bergers used by some uninformed folks would not have made it through a paunch.
Maybe everyone else is aiming somewhere other than the butt or guts?
Like this?
Originally Posted by Romney2016
Shooting birds/clay birds and 4 position rifle shooting are far better training for real hunting than sitting at a benchrest.
Romney2016, I shoot Berger bullets at game. I agree with you: shooting something in the guts with a Berger is not a good idea. How many deer/elk/antelope/pigs have you shot with match bullets/Bergers?
I'm not totally sold on TSX's (or monolithics in general) as THE only bullet to use on big game. Yeah, they penetrate great, but have seen some fail to open, which as Klik said is their biggest problem.
It also beats the hell out of not penetrating enough, but have also spent considerable time looking for animals (not all mine) that wouldn't have gone nearly as far if they'd hit with certain other bullets. Also, I haven't found monolithics to kill as quickly as lead-cored bullets with typical lung-shots, unless driven really fast, or of pretty big caliber.
I also haven't found them to penetrate any deeper than some load-cored bullets. As an example, have seen similar penetration to the 100 TSX from various .25's with both the 6mm and .25 caliber Nosler Partitions, not just once or twice but a number of times. And have yet to notice any practical difference in penetration between the 250 and 286 TSX in the 9.3x62 and the 286 Partition, and the Partition has, overall, killed quicker. And no bullet I've used has killed any quicker than the Berger VLD hunting bullets, which in my experience shoot up even less meat than monolithics if placed correctly.
But I do like the Tipped TSX's very much for specific applications.
I'm glad John said this. While I don't have near as much experience shooting game as John I have quite a bit and this is my experience as well.
Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.
The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
It seems the less "general" a site is, the better the members. Subjects are stuck to, personal attacks are dealt with and nobody posts silly pictures to degrade other members. Too bad Sgt Friday is not the site moderator here.
If you're genuinely bothered by the goings on here, then why don't you stay away and avoid the hassle?
Yes, some people have noticed that monolithics do expand more reliably and, probably, wider when fired in a faster twist. Our friend Dwayne (BC30cal) from British Columbia has noticed the difference in how TSX's act from the fast twist in the 6.5x55 versus the slower twist in the .270 Winchester. In fact, partly because of this he discovered his .270 has a slightly slower twist than the standard 1-10. (This isn't all that unusual, especially in older rifles. Before button-rifling and hammer-forging became the industry standards, sine-bar cut-rifling machines were the primary method used by factories. The rifling they cut is adjustable, and quite a few barrels had somewhat oddball twists. One of the several older .250-3000 Savage 99's I've owned had a 1-15 twist, as I discovered after failing to get 100-grain Speer Hot-Cors to shoot in the rifle, a bullet that normally shoots fine in a 1-14 twist.)
Twist has an even more noticeable effect on lead-cored bullet expansion. The most extreme example I've seen occurred a couple years ago, when Nosler first introduced the Varmageddon bullets. I was shooting prairie dogs with the head of their rifle division, and he was shooting their new AR-15, made by the late John Noveske, with a 1-8 twist barrel, using the Nosler factory load with the 55-grain tipped Varmageddon at 3100 fps.
I brought several rifles to the shoot, but started with a tang-safety Ruger 77 in .220 Swift, which of course had the standard 1-14 twist. I'd handloaded the same tipped 55-grain bullet to 3800 fps.
Guess what? The .223 "sploded" (a West Virginia term) PD's noticeably more violently than the Swift. This didn't happen just once, but consistently, on many dogs, throughout the day, out to 300+ yards.
Yep, but switch your Swift to a 1 in 10 and see what happens!
Regarding the TTSX and TSX, I have shot a lot of game with them, using them almost exclusively for a while. The vast majority were in a 7x57, next a .338 WM. I haven't recovered one, three or four years ago, I shot a big whitetail at about 50 yards running almost straight away, hit him in the left hip, the 140 TTSX exited his forehead. I don't have an exact count of the numbers of game killed, but I have shot exactly one twice, the rest were killed with one shot.
First one went down hill about 100-150 yards and piled up, second one dropped on the spot.
Holy chit...150 yards in my world puts him on an interstate, another hunting property of in the middle of someone's backyard birthday party. Thanks for saving me the money, I'll stick with nonpremium. Cup and core.
I had my first Barnes experience a few days ago. My load was a 338 federal, 185 gr TTSX, 48 gr 8208, CCI #200. The bullet was set .03 from the lands and went 2770 fps. The six point buck stood facing me at about 30 yards. The bullet entered the base of the neck and traveled almost the entire length of the deer. He dropped like a rock where he stood. I recovered the bullet in the bottom round while butchering him up. Here's a few photos of the bullet. It looks like it worked as advertised. <iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s106.photobucket.com/user/intense55/embed/story"></iframe>
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