Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles AR Issues...

Dan, in comparison to the experts above I'm kind of a noob in the AR game, but there a few comments above that really caught my eye.

AH64's comment about how to snug a barrel nut. That's the first thing I would try.

Rosts comments about the barrel. Personally, I've never heard of a Red-x barrel, but considering the price, and the you choose a fluted model, I highly doubt they re-stress relived the barrel after fluting.

Ammo. I have a match .308 that shoots 12 MOA groups with 155gr NCC's but shoots 0.12 MOA groups with NBT's. Some guns just do not like certain ammo's, so you need to eliminate this variable as well.

As for my personal thoughts: I've had bad luck with Hogue products in the past (excluding their pistol grips). I'd get rid of their cheap gimicky barrel nut and replace it with a real one.

Next, I'd check the front of the upper receiver to insure it appears straight and true.

Here's an additional thought. If you can, withing spec, turn your barrel nut one more hole. If your groups go from being a foot low to a a foot to the right, you know you have a bent barrel, and someone owe's you a refund.

Did you bore sight it?

How did that go? Does the rifle shoot off of what bore sighting indicates?

Carnac I mean Jeff could be right, but I would shoot two or three factory loads in it save the targets, and then call RedX barrels or whoever they are.

I have, a DPMS SASS. six-seven inch groups @100yd. Same rifle would cloverleaf 77gr Gold Medal. [/quote]

My bad, I'd assume that folks are trying a couple of GOOD ammo choices before voicing concerns. Thats standard and not just for ARs.

I have hogue tubes on a couple of cheapy uppers... never had an issue with them in regards to performance or accuracy.

Just an FYI, and its literally a sample of 3 total at this point. Everyone I have, which is 2 and a buddy has which is 1, will shoot sub moa with the right load.

BTW a GOOD barrel will shoot just about anything good.

Its the cheap ones that we've had to dig for to find nirvana so to speak.

A friend had a Model one barrel, that was supposed to be 9 twist, and we checked it, was pretty dang close.

The ONLY thing it would shoot was 40 grain bullets of some kind, but they shot around MOA or so as I recall. His may have shot big groups with the rest. I just don't remember. I know it didn't shoot anythign otehr than 40s good though.

I've had several ARs. I'm not a total stranger to the platform, but I've never put one together from scratch before. Thank you guys for all of the suggestions. I will certainly look into most of them.

Trying different ammo is easy enough, and Cabela's has a bunch of .223 on sale this week. The bullet holes from the 69-grainers were perfectly round, so I don't think it's a twist issue, but it's no big deal to check. I'll get a couple boxes of different bullet weights to shoot.

I didn't bore sight the rifle; I don't own one. When I sold my last AR (Rock River ATH Carbine), I just removed my LaRue/Leupold setup and stuck it in the safe. I figured it'd be close enough to get me on paper, and I could go from there.

I'll remove the barrel nut and see what there is to see. Maybe I got it cross-threaded or something? I'll employ a different technique when retightening it. It took considerable force to get it tight enough to line up with the next available hole for the gas tube, so I doubt I'll be able to crank it to the next hole without breaking something.....namely my hands as they slip off that stupid plastic "wrench." I think it's as tight as its gonna get without involving a pipe wrench. I don't think it needs to be THAT tight, does it?

I bought two identical barrels, one for me and one for a friend. l could put the other barrel on this same upper receiver and see what happens. I've got an extra upper and hand guard, as well, to see if that doesn't change things. I've got parts to swap around, so I might be able to stumble across an obvious culprit in the process.

I don't understand the idea of turning the scope mount around, though. Perhaps the suggestion was in jest, and I missed it, but I'm not sure I could handle the Jeff O shooting stance the reversed cantilever would require.

Did you put anti-seize on the barrel nut?

No, just a little CLP grease.

That'll do, no grease and it can seize/gall. Gettin' it off is then a problem

Just swapped the barrel with the other one I had. I got the Hogue barrel nut off, wrapped it a couple of times with a shop towel and went at it with a set of Channel Locks. No damage, crossed threads or anything like that. Everything looked as it should.

I did notice that the crown on each barrel looked less than ideal, a little rough. That might help explain the poor accuracy.

$100 for a SS barrel on their website, you can get a BHW barrel for $260.00

I've seen factory RRA wilson tubes come with a crown that looked like it was done with a 5/16 drill bit...

Had a guy that was having a few issues, but not quite as bad as yours, smith cleaned it up and it was fine then.

An AR is one of the easiest rifles there are to bore sight. Just remove the upper and lay it on some bags. Remove the BCG. Look through the bore and see where it points. Adjust your scope until the scope is pointing at the same spot as the barrel. First shot X!


At least 50 ft lbs tight.



Sometimes scope mounts are not milled straight, sometimes the mount is improperly installed and doesn't bear flat on the upper. Swapping ends addresses both of these issues. You are naturally going to pay more attention to the process when you do this.
Since your problem was with elevation, I strongly suspect improper installation, especially after you said the mount worked on another rifle.

Having seen a lower milled with a trigger or hammer pin so off center, that you could see how crooked the hammer( now that I think of it, it had to be the hammer pin) was once in place and it was bad enough we sent it back...

I wouldn't bet against anything at this point.

BUT I'd bet that off target and horrible groups say barrel.

Off target and good groups could point to something in the upper not milled correctly... such that its not stressed so to speak, but simply not pointing where we expect them to.

Wilson Combat barrels still on sale, 1/9 is $165 and $10 to ship:

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-...ist-Stainless/productinfo/TR-556RC16-19/

Are you certain the front part of your mount is firmly seated and tightened? I'd take it off and reinstall it before doing anything drastic.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11004/guntechdetail/how_to_build_an_ar-15_video

It has been a while since I reviewed the Brownell's videos but I am almost certain they suggest a nut torgue of about 38 foot pounds as a minimum? Don't have time right now to verify that.

Is there a way to get a nut adapter thing and actual foot pound torgue wrench on your set up? Working with machines all my life I am always looking for verified numbers no matter if it is temp, pressure or clearances or voltages. Just an objective number to work with as a start.

The barrel nut wrench comes with a recess for a torque wrench. The FM specs 30-80lb, IOW, if the gas tube hole lines up at 30, you're good.

Yep, the mount and scope were the first couple of things I checked.